Ex-Ansett A320's???

[NickN]

Does anybody know where the old Ansett A320 aircraft ended up?

[Greg F]

i think two of the ex AN A320's Crashed ??? :confused:

[Bruce Bramwell]

i think two of the ex AN A320's Crashed ??? :confused:

Armenian Airline Armavia lost CN: 547 [ex VH-HYO] in the black sea and VH-HYS less than a couple weeks later in a hanger fire

VH-HYJ = CN: 142 = Hellas Jet
VH-HYB = CN: 23 = Air Luxor

[Bruce Bramwell]

CN: 331 = AZAC Azerbaijan Airlines

[NickN]

Jeez, talk about jinxed.

Going by those construction numbers these were some of the oldest
A320's flying. Especially CN 23.

I flew twice on Ansett A320's back in the day, once from Sydney to Brisbane and another from Melbourne to Sydney.

The one I got from Melbourne had a very nice brass/faux gold barometer type thing on the front bulkhead which had a woodgrain type finish, was the first time I had ever seen such a thing.

[Bruce Bramwell]

Jeez, talk about jinxed.

Going by those construction numbers these were some of the oldest
A320's flying. Especially CN 23.

I flew twice on Ansett A320's back in the day, once from Sydney to Brisbane and another from Melbourne to Sydney.

The one I got from Melbourne had a very nice brass/faux gold barometer type thing on the front bulkhead which had a woodgrain type finish, was the first time I had ever seen such a thing.

Give me an A320 anyday over a 737

[Greg F]

Give me an A320 anyday over a 737

Same Here, I love the 320 Family

737's just look old, they aren't as nice looking and not as nice inside either,
Just my opinion

[Jamie D]

as well as hyo which crashed and hys which was burnt out in the hanger fire, i know that hya hyb and hyc have all been parted out in the united states, there may have even been another one parted in europe somewhere as it was stored and would have cost too much to get airworthy again..but i am not sure. the rest remain flying with scattered airlines across europe,

[Ash W]

Jeez, talk about jinxed.

Going by those construction numbers these were some of the oldest
A320's flying. Especially CN 23.

I flew twice on Ansett A320's back in the day, once from Sydney to Brisbane and another from Melbourne to Sydney.

The one I got from Melbourne had a very nice brass/faux gold barometer type thing on the front bulkhead which had a woodgrain type finish, was the first time I had ever seen such a thing.


Ansett were one of the first customers of the A320 so it is no surprise some of their construction numbers are so low. Ansett's first A320, CN22 was also the first A320-200, it too has been scrapped. Below is a link to list of the A320's Ansett had. If you click on the MSN it will show it's full history including any scrappings or write offs.

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Ansett%20Australia-history-a320.htm

[NickN]

Ash,

Thats a totally awesome link!!!!!

I will be flying with Jetstar next month which will be my first time back on a 320 since 1997/98 with Ansett I am really looking forward to it.

[Adam P.]

HYN is now a helicopter...

[Steve S... 2]

Hi,

I believe a good majority of the ex AN A320's are now scrapped. I know HYF has been as well.

It is interesting that the ex AN 737-300's (of which most are older and date to 1986) are still flying but the ex AN A320's didn't see 20 years...

Anyone know if an A320 has ever been converted to a freighter?

Regards,

Steve S.

[Ryan Hothersall]

Some of the 737-300s ended up in England in Jet2 colours, while others went to Mexico etc.

[Bruce Bramwell]

Some of the 737-300s ended up in England in Jet2 colours, while others went to Mexico etc.


Channel Express initally then TF to Jet2, Two 737-300's even ended up with Biman Bangaldesh Airlines for a year

[Marty H]

CZD was cut up in BNE

[NickN]

Its a shame so many A320's haven't gone the distance. There seem to be a huge amount of Boeing aircraft in service from that era that have survived.

I would say that the newer A320's are built much differntly to those older ones though.

[Ash W]

Hi,

I believe a good majority of the ex AN A320's are now scrapped. I know HYF has been as well.

It is interesting that the ex AN 737-300's (of which most are older and date to 1986) are still flying but the ex AN A320's didn't see 20 years...

Anyone know if an A320 has ever been converted to a freighter?

Regards,

Steve S.

A majority, that is extending the truth a little, majority generally means more than half. It seems like 4 or 5 ex AN birds have been scrapped, 2 destroyed in accidents with a couple more in storage. Indeed it seems only a dozen A320 in total have been scrapped with about the same written off.

With the 737's have a look where they have eneded up. The majority seem to have ended up in 3rd world countries or the ex Russian states which says quite a lot really.

As for the A320 as freighters don't think there is one as yet.

[Bruce Bramwell]

With the 737's have a look where they have eneded up. The majority seem to have ended up in 3rd world countries or the ex Russian states which says quite a lot really.

Third world countries?????? If you add them all up, you will find that majority of the aircraft do not operate in third world countries

[Ash W]

Third world countries?????? If you add them all up, you will find that majority of the aircraft do not operate in third world countries

I was talking ex AN not 737's in general.

[Bruce Bramwell]

Well - several are over with European countries [Channel Express / Jet2] one is over with New Zealand

[Ash W]

Well - several are over with European countries [Channel Express / Jet2] one is over with New Zealand

Actually you need to have a closer look at the fleet list. On the AN page it shows where they went straight after Ansett, when you click on the a/c it shows where it is now. Of the ones that went to Qantas NZ (-CZU and -CZS)on is now in Romainia and one in Indonesia.

You also need to remember that 1/3rd of the AN 737's were leased from mainly from AWAS hence why the found homes so quick. The bulk of the A320's were owned by AN (Ansett used to register the leased a/c in the higher rego block going backwards)

But yes a good 2/3rds of the ex AN 737's are now UK registered.

[Bruce Bramwell]

Actually you need to have a closer look at the fleet list. On the AN page it shows where they went straight after Ansett, when you click on the a/c it shows where it is now. Of the ones that went to Qantas NZ (-CZU and -CZS)on is now in Romainia and one in Indonesia.

You also need to remember that 1/3rd of the AN 737's were leased from mainly from AWAS hence why the found homes so quick. The bulk of the A320's were owned by AN (Ansett used to register the leased a/c in the higher rego block going backwards)

But yes a good 2/3rds of the ex AN 737's are now UK registered.

Not going to argue your point, its just that you mentioned this

With the 737's have a look where they have eneded up. The majority seem to have ended up in 3rd world countries or the ex Russian states which says quite a lot really.


2/3's of the ex AN aircraft are not in Third World Countries as you stated.

[Ash W]

Not going to argue your point, its just that you mentioned this



2/3's of the ex AN aircraft are not in Third World Countries as you stated.

As someone who lives in the UK, I would say this place is 3rd world!!!:p:p:p

[Bruce Bramwell]

As someone who lives in the UK, I would say this place is 3rd world!!!:p:p:p


It depends on where about you live in the UK, I have spent my time over their and absolute love it.

Seems your in a unlucky place

[Ash W]

It depends on where about you live in the UK, I have spent my time over their and absolute love it.

Seems your in a unlucky place

I am in London! Yeah you are right there are some nice places, just got to go to where the true poms are, not where the foreigners (like me) are!

[Zac M]

looking at the ansett list on this all the 747's went to Singapore Airlines except one which was VH-INK. Some went still on the Aussie register, some on the american but what caught my I was the ones that went onto the Singapore rego-
VH-INH became 9V-SKA
VH-INJ became 9V-SKD

and this one which was on the US register
N122KH became 9V-SKH

All of these either are or will be A380 regos. However most of the ex AN 747s have being scrapped or stored with the exception of-
ex VH-INK now TF-AMK
ex VH-ANA now DQ-FJL
ex VH-ANB now DQ-FJK

[Ash W]

looking at the ansett list on this all the 747's went to Singapore Airlines except one which was VH-INK. Some went still on the Aussie register, some on the american but what caught my I was the ones that went onto the Singapore rego-
VH-INH became 9V-SKA
VH-INJ became 9V-SKD

and this one which was on the US register
N122KH became 9V-SKH

All of these either are or will be A380 regos. However most of the ex AN 747s have being scrapped or stored with the exception of-
ex VH-INK now TF-AMK
ex VH-ANA now DQ-FJL
ex VH-ANB now DQ-FJK

No they didn't go to Singapore, they were owned by Singapore and leased to Ansett. Once Ansett had finished with them they simply returned to their owner (SQ) awaiting futher leasing or disposal.

[Bob C]

I believe that both VH-INH and -INJ were leased from Singapore Airlines and assumed their former registrations when the leases expired and were returned to SQ.

VH-INK was previously N117KC and retained this U S registration when in service with SQ and assumed it once again on completion of the lease.

[Ash W]

I believe that both VH-INH and -INJ were leased from Singapore Airlines and assumed their former registrations when the leases expired and were returned to SQ.

VH-INK was previously N117KC and retained this U S registration when in service with SQ and assumed it once again on completion of the lease.

All the Ansett 747's were at some point owned by SQ, that is why the models end in x12. You only need to look at the model number to see that.

[Bruce Bramwell]

What were the slogan, spaceships or something?

Considering at the height, Ansett had three 747-300's they did extremely well to win best Business class award!

[Ash W]

What were the slogan, spaceships or something?

Considering at the height, Ansett had three 747-300's they did extremely well to win best Business class award!

Yeah they were spaceships. Ansett won the awards not for the quantity but quality, just like most of their products. It is because of Ansett that Australia is so spoilt for service. Even today what Qantas offers domesticly is so much more than many carriers offer on short haul international.

[Marty H]

INH and INJ are now being parted and scrapped at Mojave. They are still in Ansett colours their are pictures on jetphotos.net of both.

[Bob C]

I know about the models numbers, Ash ; I'm not that dumb and didn't want to complicate my reply to Zac.

My reply was from memory and cautious in tone as I didn't have time to check my references before heading out to dinner last night.

[NickN]

I really miss the days of flying with Ansett. They always gave me the best of service and it was always a pleasure to fly with them.

I recall at the time that Air NZ owned Ansett when it went under and they copped the blame for ruining the business but was that really the only factor which resulted in their demise?

[Nigel C]

Short answer is no, but you're really opening up a can of worms here.
Perhaps you could start another thread on Ansett's demise and hope it doesn't degenerate!

Best of luck!

[Bruce Bramwell]

I really miss the days of flying with Ansett. They always gave me the best of service and it was always a pleasure to fly with them.

I recall at the time that Air NZ owned Ansett when it went under and they copped the blame for ruining the business but was that really the only factor which resulted in their demise?

There were alot of factors causing Ansett to go under [ironic as australia is caled downunder!] AirNZ was the most to blame.

If you wish to read more I suggest you read the creditors reports [6 of them] they will show you more than what is in the news.

Maybe Raymond Rowe [if he is still here] can answer some questions, but I suggest you digging deeper to find out the real truths [why was ANZ so quick to pay AN $150million to settle claims so they couldnt be chased anymore?

[Marty H]

There were alot of factors causing Ansett to go under [ironic as australia is caled downunder!] AirNZ was the most to blame.

If you wish to read more I suggest you read the creditors reports [6 of them] they will show you more than what is in the news.

Maybe Raymond Rowe [if he is still here] can answer some questions, but I suggest you digging deeper to find out the real truths [why was ANZ so quick to pay AN $150million to settle claims so they couldnt be chased anymore?

IMO there were three key problems

1. Over staffed 2. Air NZ should never have been allowed to buy the other 50% of Ansett, they got into a bidding war with a highly cashed up Singapore Airlines and paid top dollar for the other 50% stake in Ansett, by doing this they subsequently bought something that was bigger than themselves. 3. Too many aircraft types.

Lets also remember Ansett were losing money way back in 1995, just refer to back issues of AA magazine.

[NickN]

Those were my thoughts at the time, Air NZ bought a company larger than itself which to me made little sense.

[Bruce Bramwell]

IMO there were three key problems

1. Over staffed 2. Air NZ should never have been allowed to buy the other 50% of Ansett, they got into a bidding war with a highly cashed up Singapore Airlines and paid top dollar for the other 50% stake in Ansett, by doing this they subsequently bought something that was bigger than themselves. 3. Too many aircraft types.

Lets also remember Ansett were losing money way back in 1995, just refer to back issues of AA magazine.

Without making this into a slanging match, if you look at the financials, you will see that AN were making a nice little profit later in 98/99 [or thereabouts] in the Business plan.

Just a year after AirNZ brought the other 50% it all went ****e? go figure

[Bruce Bramwell]

IMO there were three key problems

1. Over staffed 2. Air NZ should never have been allowed to buy the other 50% of Ansett, they got into a bidding war with a highly cashed up Singapore Airlines and paid top dollar for the other 50% stake in Ansett, by doing this they subsequently bought something that was bigger than themselves. 3. Too many aircraft types.

Lets also remember Ansett were losing money way back in 1995, just refer to back issues of AA magazine.

I also agree with your three points

[Marty H]

Without making this into a slanging match, if you look at the financials, you will see that AN were making a nice little profit later in 98/99 [or thereabouts] in the Business plan.

Just a year after AirNZ brought the other 50% it all went ****e? go figure

Agree, I hope this doesnt turn into a slanging match either as I would like to see this topic discussed further, Ive spoken with alot of ex ansett employes at work and that where I came up with those three points being the key to the demise of Ansett.

I still think in addition to that QF and CASA had alot to do with it also. I would like to hear peoples thoughts on those two parties involvement.

[Andrew P]

Ansett is dead and burried move on, life too short to worry about such old, and now irrelevant, history

Bnjo

[Robert Zweck]

The B747-300 INJ was known as Fish Fingers

[Marty H]

The B747-300 INJ was known as Fish Fingers

LOL 'Honey Im just battering the fish':D

[NickN]

It was a shame what happened with the grounding of the 767 fleet, I think from memory it was to do with stress fractures/cracking?

[Simon Hoby]

Yes, it was stress cracking somehwere around the engine mounts as I recall. Others may know more about this than I do.

I also feel that part of Ansett's issues was their flight schedules and rostering. At the time I would regularly take a flight from ADL to BNE that went via MEL. The ADL-MEL sector would be packed but then the MEL-BNE sector had maybe 50 people at the most in an A320 or 737. It seemed like they were flying partially loaded aircraft at a loss.

Additonally, AN were getting a bit behind in the technology too. AN would take up to two weeks to post points for flights to frequent flyers, where as QF would do it in no more than a couple of hours.

Just my AUD $0.02 worth.

[Kent Broadhead]

Well yes, stress fractures and cracking - but the fact that AN hadn't carried out the required checks within the required timeframe didn't help their case either.....

But yes, AN service was better than QF at the time, and that's how they attempted to distinguish themselves.

Kent

[Marty H]

It was a shame what happened with the grounding of the 767 fleet, I think from memory it was to do with stress fractures/cracking?

From what I have read Boeing put out a maintenace bulletin asking B762 operators to check for cracks in the engine pylons between certain build numbers, I think Ansett had only two aircraft that fell in the build numbers that Boeing requested that needed to be checked, now this is where I think CASA played its role in the demise of Ansett, they grounded the whole of Ansetts B762 fleet.

I think its highly sus that at the time Jon Anderson was the Transport minister and his wife was on the QF board.

[Ash W]

From what I have read Boeing put out a maintenace bulletin asking B762 operators to check for cracks in the engine pylons between certain build numbers, I think Ansett had only two aircraft that fell in the build numbers that Boeing requested that needed to be checked, now this is where I think CASA played its role in the demise of Ansett, they grounded the whole of Ansetts B762 fleet.

I think its highly sus that at the time Jon Anderson was the Transport minister and his wife was on the QF board.

Although I agree CASA and more importantly the media through their scare campaign (like what they are going with Qantas now) played a major part in their demise I doubt their was any political interferance as suggested.

There is another factor to the demise of Ansett that hasn't been mentioned, and that is the role that Virgin Blue and Impulse played. We need to remember Ansett's loads were dropping with the introduction of these two airlines, but Ansett didn't have the cash to respond properly.

So we could put the demise down to multiple factors over many years, all starting when Peter Ables and Murdoch brought Ansett. Air NZ's actions were the nail in the coffin. It is hard to say what might have happened had Ansett been looked after properly both under New Limited and Air NZ ownership.

[Ryan Hothersall]

I think its highly sus that at the time Jon Anderson was the Transport minister and his wife was on the QF board.

Wouldn't that be classed as a conflict of interest?

Also when Ansett went under it was only a couple of days after Sept 11 2001. Would that have been a factor?.

If the events of that day did not occur, would Ansett still have gone under?

[Ash W]

Wouldn't that be classed as a conflict of interest?

Also when Ansett went under it was only a couple of days after Sept 11 2001. Would that have been a factor?.

If the events of that day did not occur, would Ansett still have gone under?

Actually if I recall ANZ was in the process of winding up Ansett in the days before Sep 11. If anything it made it harder to bail it out, but wouldn't have contributed it's failure in the first place. Who knows what the outcome would have been had things been different. As I said above there are dozens of reasons the company failed, if one reason had of been handled differently the result could have been altered.

As for the conflict of interest, yes there would have been a potential conflict and Anderson would have had to report it. But just because there is a conflict or a potential conflict doesn't mean it is wrong per se.

[NickN]

And the Australian Government declined to assist with bailing Ansett out, it would have been a great chance to save Ansett. One of the only things I hold against John Howard is that moment.

[Ash W]

And the Australian Government declined to assist with bailing Ansett out, it would have been a great chance to save Ansett. One of the only things I hold against John Howard is that moment.

Yeah but it is not the responsibility of the government to bail out companies, unless it is in the interest of the nation and in this case it wasn't in our interest.

Yes it was sad to loose an 'icon' and many people lost their jobs but sadly that is just the way the world is. I think history has shown our aviation industry has adapted to the loss as well as all the other market factor since and is in reasonably good shape.

[NickN]

Ansett at the time was one of the 2 largest national airlines, surely losing them and handing the monopoly over the Qantas was not in the national interests. The government handed it all to Qantas on a plate.

[Ryan Hothersall]

I bet if Qantas today was in the same position as Ansett, the Government would do whatever it took to stop Qantas from gone under.

[Ash W]

I bet if Qantas today was in the same position as Ansett, the Government would do whatever it took to stop Qantas from gone under.

As our only international airline (well for the time being anyway), it could be argued that would be in the best interest of the country. Just like how ANZ was bailed out by the NZ government.

Ansett at the time was one of 4 domestic airlines and a minor international carrier. Slightly different situation.

[NickN]

Ansett was 1 of 4 but the other 2 were very small at the time, and as I said the government handed Qantas the monopoly. It would have been in the national interest to have 2 major airlines flying to keep the competition within the industry. I don't think many could say that Qantas didn't take advantage of the situation by squeezing the public with increased airfares after Ansetts collapse.

[Ash W]

Ansett was 1 of 4 but the other 2 were very small at the time, and as I said the government handed Qantas the monopoly. It would have been in the national interest to have 2 major airlines flying to keep the competition within the industry. I don't think many could say that Qantas didn't take advantage of the situation by squeezing the public with increased airfares after Ansetts collapse.

I think history has shown that the decision was right. Sure Qantas was handed a 'monopoly' of sorts for a short period of time and Virgin Blue was given an unprecedented oportunity to grow, but sadly for Ansett I think it the result we have today was the best outcome in the 'national' interest.

PS if there were any price rises at the time, I don't think it was Qantas taking advantage of what you call their monopoly. You need to remember in the year or two before hand Qantas and Ansett were in price battle to slow the growth of Virgin Blue, so were offering silly fares, once Ansett went under the market returned to normal fare structures, not excessive fares due to reduced competition.

[Nigel C]

All wonderful discussion, but what the hell does all this have to do with Ansett's A320's?:confused::confused::confused:

Mods, can we start a new thread for the Ansett collapse?

[Ash W]

All wonderful discussion, but what the hell does all this have to do with Ansett's A320's?:confused::confused::confused:

Mods, can we start a new thread for the Ansett collapse?

It is called a discussion board. Like all discussions you talk about one thing, which leads to another then next thing you know you aren't discussing the original topic......

[Marty H]

Has anyone read the book 'The evil pre-meditated murder of an airline'??? If you can get past the author hatred towards CASA it is quite a good read, it actually points back to the fact that QF were actually in financial trouble themselves with their share price at the time tumbling quite steeply.

[Philip Argy]

I think the real culprit was the Federal Govt for allowing itself to be lobbied to block the SQ rescue of Ansett. It would have been an ideal outcome and pitted Star Alliance more squarely against OneWorld.

.... and I might have salvaged some of my 1 million Golden Wing points and Life Membership that went south with the old spaceships :mad:

[Jon Harris]

The author of that book is JLW Ellis - it is quite hard to find...I've been looking for it for ages...Marty, do you know where I can get a copy?

Thanks,

[steve k]

Ansett had A320's???:rolleyes:
All this time i thought we had "SKYSTAR'S":D

[Marty H]

The author of that book is JLW Ellis - it is quite hard to find...I've been looking for it for ages...Marty, do you know where I can get a copy?

Thanks,

I bought mine through www.flarose.com.au

[Ray P.]

Just to keep the ball rolling ;), I'm surprised that no one has mentioned how ANZ 'acquired' much of ANA's low lifed components (including engines) which magically made their way on to ANZ aircraft thus reducing maintenance costs significantly for themselves whilst doing exactly the opposite for ANA. Surely we have all heard about engines disappearing overnight only to be found on ANZ aircraft. I also recall hearing that ANA bore ANZ's fuel costs.

Oops. I just realised how old this thread is. :o

[Marty H]

Just to keep the ball rolling ;), I'm surprised that no one has mentioned how ANZ 'acquired' much of ANA's low lifed components (including engines) which magically made their way on to ANZ aircraft thus reducing maintenance costs significantly for themselves whilst doing exactly the opposite for ANA. Surely we have all heard about engines disappearing overnight only to be found on ANZ aircraft. I also recall hearing that ANA bore ANZ's fuel costs.

Oops. I just realised how old this thread is. :o

Ive heard that also, but it has never I guess 'offically' confirmed.

[Grant Smith]

Not too sure what the relevence between ANA (a Japanese airline) has to do with this... :confused:

[Nigel C]

Here's the answer you've been looing for Grant. You just needed to do a search!

It is called a discussion board. Like all discussions you talk about one thing, which leads to another then next thing you know you aren't discussing the original topic......

[Ray P.]

Not too sure what the relevence between ANA (a Japanese airline) has to do with this... :confused:


Whoops, I guess that's one too many 'A's. Your confusion is noted. :rolleyes:

Say, what's the big idea. Don't tell me that there is a time limit on me editing my previous post. Oh well, perhaps ANA (a Japanese airline) were effected by ANZ's actions. ;)

[Ryan Hothersall]

Maybe Ray was referring to the ANA name Ansett was using in the 1950s.

[Grant Smith]

Here's the answer you've been looing for Grant. You just needed to do a search!

Nige,

Apologies for not looking for... I should do a better search next time ;)

[Ray P.]

Maybe Ray was referring to the ANA name Ansett was using in the 1950s.

Uh, yeah..that's exactly what I was referring to. :o Thanks Ryan.