QANTAS Again

[Marty H]

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,24120975-5014090,00.html

[Greg F]

My Freeking God!

Are they going to bash Toyota every time a Toyota breaks down in Australia????????:mad:

Media Frenzy, absolutely stupid.

[Nigel C]

Slow news day...:rolleyes:

[Rhys Xanthis]

This is getting absolutely out of hand now..thats pathetic.

Must be a slow news day Nigel!
People must be ringing up these news agencies and telling them every tidbit that goes wrong in the terminal...

[Andrew M]

What a JOKE :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Where are the reports for all the the delays of UA/NZ/AC/DJ etc etc for exactly the same problems

"Qantas, which has grounded a Tokyo-bound jet at the last minute so it can change a faulty part."

[Scott Lindsell]

What a JOKE :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
"Qantas, which has grounded a Tokyo-bound jet at the last minute so it can change a faulty part."

What do these idiots who write these articles want. Would they prefer these extremely high tech, million part machines fly without being 100%. It's not your company car you know, slightly more complicated than that.
Morons.
:mad:

For what it's worth, if I was on a plane that was in a real emergency where survival looked slim there is no other airline in the world I would want to be on than QF.

[Rhys Xanthis]

For what it's worth, if I was on a plane that was in a real emergency where survival looked slim there is no other airline in the world I would want to be on than QF.

This man speaketh the truth!

Comments are a bit of an interesting read, some are actually believing this tripe:p http://www.news.com.au/comments/0,23600,24120975-5014090,00.html , but their are quite a few who realise it for what it is :)

[Raymond Rowe]

What would everyone here say if there was a reporter who actually had an aviation background would you jump on them so quickly.They are doing a job and yes people should be made aware of what is going on around the airlines.

[Rhys Xanthis]

What would everyone here say if there was a reporter who actually had an aviation background would you jump on them so quickly.They are doing a job and yes people should be made aware of what is going on around the airlines.

Very true, but i dont think comparing this to the incident on QF19 and even the hydraulics problem on the Sydney to Manila flight...this is just a delay on a faulty part that has been repaired...i dont see why it should be front page news!

And, well, i think a reporter who had an aviation background would not be so quick to jump on something like this and make it front page news - Andrew?

[Adam J]

This man speaketh the truth!

Comments are a bit of an interesting read, some are actually believing this tripe:p http://www.news.com.au/comments/0,23600,24120975-5014090,00.html , but their are quite a few who realise it for what it is :)


Check this comment out. I couldn't resist reprinting it here, I know it is a bit O/T but it gave me a laugh.

Flying in general, and not just Qantas, lost its ambience it once had when they removed first class off domestic sectors, allowed passengers attired in clothing more appropriate for the airport public bar to become lounge members, and airlines refused to put sound proof security barriers between the last row of Business and the first row of Economy class.
Posted by: Kevin of Double Bay 2:06pm today
Comment 25 of 39

Gotta love Kev of Double Bay;)

[Jason Carruthers]

Check this comment out. I couldn't resist reprinting it here, I know it is a bit O/T but it gave me a laugh.

Flying in general, and not just Qantas, lost its ambience it once had when they removed first class off domestic sectors, allowed passengers attired in clothing more appropriate for the airport public bar to become lounge members, and airlines refused to put sound proof security barriers between the last row of Business and the first row of Economy class.
Posted by: Kevin of Double Bay 2:06pm today
Comment 25 of 39

Gotta love Kev of Double Bay;)

I read that earlier I can recall the same person's rant when they reported JQ's 1 cent sales earlier which went along the lines of "I'm concerned about the type of passengers these sales attract to air travel. The other day I was appalled that the man sitting next to me in Business class was not wearing a suit and had jeans. etc. etc." Haha It just has to be someone with a good humour stirring the pot.

[Rhys Xanthis]

Nightline on Ch 9 tonight claimed that 3 planes were delayed for technical reasons blah blah blah, luckily David Cox came on and told them that they would keep planes back as long as nessecary and needed to make the planes 100% serviceable, good on QF for coming out with that, although i think they could go as far as saying media beat up!

[Montague S]

if safety is blah blah blah to you Rhys then I suggest you start Atlant Soyuz...

I don't know any other industry where 400 lives at any one time are cared for by a select few in a tube at 35,000 feet, it absolutely is of public interest when things go wrong in this business...I'd be more worried if the media wasn't reporting it.

[Rhys Xanthis]

Fair enough Montague, but reporting every incident where a plane is delayed just to replace a part is stupid, Qantas are just the beat up boy of the media right now.

They can report mid-air things, or perhaps a return to port or diversion if they really want,, but i think that reporting every incident where a plane is delayed due to technical reasons is stupid.

And i'll thank you not to suggest that i think that safety is blah blah blah - its very important to me (i thought you would've guessed that after what i've said about Garuda...)

[Montague S]

most of what you say Rhys seems to follow someone elses lead or contradicts what you previously said...case in point, your blase attitude towards the media coverage of Qantas directly contradicts your stance regarding the media coverage of the Garuda incident.

your all for hanging a guy out to dry from the media reports re the GA accident, yet you can't wait to cast aside the media reports regarding Qantas...make up your mind because the contradictions are becoming more obvious.

[Rhys Xanthis]

most of what you say Rhys seems to follow someone elses lead or contradicts what you previously said...case in point, your blase attitude towards the media coverage of Qantas directly contradicts your stance regarding the media coverage of the Garuda incident.

your all for hanging a guy out to dry from the media reports re the GA accident, yet you can't wait to cast aside the media reports regarding Qantas...make up your mind because the contradictions are becoming more obvious.

But the Garuda was a big incident, people died, of course i would want and expect media coverage for it, and the same goes for the QF19 incident.

What i dislike greatly is the reporting of stupid things like delayed flights while they fix a part. Its a stupid thing to go and start reporting in the media every day.

So there is my stance, and i dont think its contradictory. A big incident (eg QF19, Garuda accident) needs media coverage, but stupid 3 hr delays due to maintenance should not be reported in such a big way, and im sure others on this forum would agree with me

[Montague S]

But the Garuda was a big incident, people died, of course i would want and expect media coverage for it, and the same goes for the QF19 incident.

What i dislike greatly is the reporting of stupid things like delayed flights while they fix a part. Its a stupid thing to go and start reporting in the media every day.

So there is my stance, and i dont think its contradictory. A big incident (eg QF19, Garuda accident) needs media coverage, but stupid 3 hr delays due to maintenance should not be reported in such a big way, and im sure others on this forum would agree with me

you've obviously missed the point altogether so I won't continue any further.

[Krzysztof M]

In last night's Letterman show the Top Ten thingy was 'Top Ten Signs Your Airline is Cutting Costs'. Some are quite funny so I thought I'd post them here.

http://lateshow.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/top_ten/index/php/20080805.phtml

Top Ten



10/ During flight they hit you with additional $200 "landing charge"

9/ It's day 4 of your honeymoon and you're still on the tarmac

8/ Plane has a "Hyundai" hood ornament

7/ When you arrive, Hawaii looks suspiciously like Detroit

6/ Inflatable vest replaced with smaller inflatable bow ties

5/ Plane can't take off until you lose 20 pounds

4/ In-flight entertainment: watching two fat guys fight for an armrest

3/ Flight attendants wearing clothes you packed

2/ The pilot -- Andy Dick. Seriously, Andy, we love you and want you to get help!

1/ During the captain's preflight checklist, you hear him say, "close enough"

[Greg McDonald]

And again....

A Qantas domestic flight carrying 111 passengers pulled out of a take-off at Melbourne Airport after noises were heard coming from the undercarriage.

The Canberra-bound 737 jet returned to the terminal after the aborted take-off and passengers were loaded onto another plane and finally left Melbourne just after 1pm (AEST).

A Qantas spokeswoman said QF850 had problems with its air-conditioning duct unit.

"It was a routine return to the terminal due to an air-conditioning fault," she said.

"Rather than delay passengers further a replacement aircraft was arranged and the flight took off just before 1pm."

The incident was another in a recent run of scares for Australia's national airline.

[Rhys Xanthis]

Lets just wait for all the comments to start flooding in now.

An aborted take off....front page news everyone!

I think everyone is need of a but of a laugh after this crap...i think some news.com.au journo's are using this to write their stories! http://www.aussiebloggers.com.au/planestory/planestory.html

[Jared F]

Great find Rhys. I think some of these sensationalist journalists definitely have it in their favorites.

[Johannes C]

Well same things happened in Indonesia, people send mails to newspapers just to complain pilots talking to flight attendant in flight. He think that the pilot should concentrate on flying the plane, as it is endangering as talking to others while driving a car. So you can tell how stupid that assumption is. A plane that RTA because of "unusual noise" (which is just a loose hinge, CPA and other airlines often just take off ignoring it) gets a very bloody report news.

A friend of mine who is an Indonesian airline pilot that graduated from an Aussie flying school, told me that in Australia, people are more outrageous about aviation stuff... things are silly, such as if the pilots use speedbrakes, and airframe shakes (normally), passengers will complain as it is "dangerous" stuff in newspapers.

Talk about Garuda? I have "incident" on my flight from Denpasar last 4th August, the APU won't start so the pilot decided not to shut down one of the engines to supply power for the AC and electricity. It delayed us for about 30 minutes.

Well, everyone in aviation-savvy world knows that without APU the aircraft can still go, but i think they (the press) missed this one.

[Montague S]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/grounded-jets-95-defects-revealed/2008/08/08/1218139033327.html

bit more on the story that is VH-TJU.

[NickN]

TJU should be close to retirement, I can't see how much longer Qantas can keep running those old beaten up 734's.

[Marty H]

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,24147948-5014090,00.html

[Josh F]

Malaysian engineers defend Qantas record

MALAYSIAN Airlines has defended its maintenance of Qantas aircraft, saying experts from the Australian carrier signed off on all repairs.

A Qantas jet grounded in Melbourne yesterday because of noise from an air-conditioning fault was the same plane that returned from routine maintenance in Malaysia two months ago with 95 defects, News Ltd reported.

The Canberra-bound Boeing 737 jet returned to the terminal and passengers were transferred to another plane, finally leaving Melbourne 90 minutes later, just before 1pm (AEST) yesterday.

A Qantas spokeswoman said QF850 had problems with an air-conditioning duct unit while taxiing towards the runway.

The original faults on the aircraft included a galley that was so badly installed it was a fire risk and gave a flight attendant an electric shock, News Ltd reported.

But Malaysia Airlines senior general manager Mohammed Roslan Ismail said today Qantas had 12 personnel attached to its engineering and maintenance service in Malaysia.

"All the highlights were rectified, to the satisfaction of the Qantas team, before aircraft delivery to Australia," he said in a statement.

"With regards to the 'string of faults' that were reported in the media, (Malaysia Airlines) investigated and established that these were unsubstantiated.

"This is based on the fact that all these aspects were originally checked and found to be free from defect during the maintenance check and test flight, with the concurrence from the Qantas team."

He said in the case of the flight attendant being given an electric shock, Malaysian engineers had found the root cause of the problem.

"We are fully committed to executing all aspects of aircraft engineering maintenance with no compromise to safety and security, as well as meeting the expectations of both our customers and the global regulatory authorities that have recognised our competencies," he said.

AAP

[Robert Zweck]

Re some of the garbage I have seen in the press in recent days.....

Qantas would have a strong case for libelous and defamatory statements made against the airline, ( i.e statements that are either completely false OR convey a misleading notion )

I am glad there haven't been many go-arounds

[NickN]

Robert, I am not sure much of the stories have been INTENTIONALLY misleading, more bad journalism. I think the word "sensationalized" would be more accurate than false, misleading or otherwise.

[Andrew McLaughlin]

I am not sure much of the stories have been INTENTIONALLY misleading, more bad journalism. I think the word "sensationalized" would be more accurate than false, misleading or otherwise.
Yeah, don't you just hate those "sensationalized" statements, just like this one...
TJU should be close to retirement, I can't see how much longer Qantas can keep running those old beaten up 734's.
People in glass houses, Nick... :mad:

And just so you know Nick, TJU was first registered in 1994, making it only 14 years old....not quite what I would call "old beaten up".

[Raymond Rowe]

Robert, I am not sure much of the stories have been INTENTIONALLY misleading, more bad journalism. I think the word "sensationalized" would be more accurate than false, misleading or otherwise.


Nick how much engineering experience do you have to come up with some of the things you have said.Or is it all armchair.

[NickN]

People in glass houses, Nick...

TJU should be close to retirement, I can't see how much longer Qantas can keep running those old beaten up 734's.

Part sarcasm, part harsh criticism.

And for the record, there are some pretty awful looking 734's getting around with more ripples in the side than Botany Bay in a SouEaster so the comment wasn't too far from the mark. The comment wasn't contained solely to TJU.

[Adam G]

There are RPT runs (both high & low capacity) in Australia being conducted in equipment much older then the 737-400's at QF!!

Personally after flying recently on some NZ's 733's, I find the QF 734's fairly decent!

[Krzysztof M]

Personally, apart from having to look at significantly higher number of coffee stains on the floor I feel no less comfortable than on any other 737s :D

[Anthony T]

QF810 PER-ADL got canned last night, due to a what i was informed was a chemical spillage in the cargo hold, Pax to flown to ADL sat morning.

Anthony T

[Marty H]

And AGAIN http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24178872-29277,00.html

[Bernie P]

More Qantas trouble: flight grounded

August 15, 2008 - 7:42AM

A Qantas flight from Brisbane to Melbourne was delayed by more than half an hour today due to a technical problem.

A passenger told the ABC that everyone was seated and the plane was ready for take-off when they were told they had to disembark because of an engineering problem.

The plane was due to fly out at 6am but departed about 40 minutes later.

A Qantas spokeswoman said there was a minor technical issue but denied it posed any safety concerns.

"It was not a safety concern. The engineers were just checking the aircraft," she told AAP.

This follows a string of incidents which began last month when an explosion ripped a hole in the fuselage of a Qantas jet en route from Hong Kong to Melbourne, forcing an emergency landing at Manila.

On Wednesday night, a Qantas Boeing 767 experienced a hydraulic failure which affected the plane's steering as it landed at Sydney airport.

The plane left a trail of hydraulic fluid as it touched down on its way from Melbourne, forcing the closure of the runway for 40 minutes while the spill was mopped up, The Australian reported.

AAP/SMH (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/more-qantas-trouble-flight-grounded/2008/08/15/1218307171923.html?sssdmh=dm16.329225)

This is now just getting ridiculous... I mean, 40 mins... I understand them closng the runway an all... Some reporters need to get a life!

[AdamC]

When is all this going to end.

Some people need to stop ringing reporters everytime an aircraft breaks and get a life.

Theres my 5 cents.

Cheers

Adam

[Montague S]

hate to be the bearer of bad news...

not sure how passengers onboard can see oil leaking on to the runway, x-ray vision perhaps?

Workers stranded while Qantas fixes plane
15th August 2008, 6:45 WST

Miners on their week off work were delayed for more than five hours at Karratha airport yesterday evening after yet another technical fault in a Qantas 737.


Michael Mech, a contractor with Rio Tinto, said fly-in fly-out workers were starting to get angry because of a series of delayed flights to and from the mining town.

“A 737 800 was spewing oil on the runway and 150 guys waiting had to go back to their camps on their week off,” he said.

“We have been having a fair few delays lately, it happened early last week as well… it is getting ridiculous. Some of these guys missed connecting flights to Sydney and Melbourne. How many things have to happen before the aviation authorities do something about this?”

Mr Mech said witnesses on board the plane as it landed had seen oil leaking on to the runway.

“At Karratha airport the planes have to turn around at the end of the runway and taxi back, a couple of people on board said they saw a trail of something up to where the plane was. It was about 4.30pm. Sure enough the flight to Perth using the same plane was cancelled. Other airlines have been grounded for this kind of thing… Do we have to wait for one of these 737s to drop out of the air?”

A Qantas spokeswoman confirmed that the flight, QF915, was delayed because of a mechanical problem and engineers had to be flown in from Perth to make repairs but said she could not comment on the details of the fault.

“A replacement 737 has been arranged and will depart at 11.30pm,” she said yesterday evening.

Originally scheduled to arrive in Perth at 7pm, the substitute flight was expected to land at 1.25 this morning.

Mr Mech said the waiting passengers worked for various mining operations in the area.

“We are not very happy I can tell you,” he said.

GIOVANNI TORRE

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=91506

[Michael Mak]

And another one
Panel falls off Qantas plane during flight

A small body panel has fallen off a Qantas Jumbo jet on its way to Singapore from Melbourne.

A spokeswoman for Qantas says routine checks on the Boeing 747 after it arrived at Singapore's Changi Airport early this morning found that a small engine access panel had become detached.

"It had absolutely no flight safety implications," the spokeswoman said.
The access panel, which was "non-structural", was replaced and the flight continued to London after a delay of just under six hours.

The incident is the latest in a series of aircraft problems for Qantas.
This morning a Qantas flight from Brisbane to Melbourne was delayed by more than half an hour because of a technical problem.

On Wednesday night, a Qantas Boeing 767 experienced a hydraulic failure which affected the plane's steering as it landed at Sydney airport.

The plane left a trail of hydraulic fluid as it touched down on its way from Melbourne, forcing the closure of the runway for 40 minutes while the spill was mopped up.

Last month an explosion ripped a hole in the fuselage of a Qantas jet en route from Hong Kong to Melbourne, forcing an emergency landing at Manila.
AAP
http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/panel-falls-off-qantas-plane/2008/08/15/1218307183980.html

[Marty H]

And another one

http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/panel-falls-off-qantas-plane/2008/08/15/1218307183980.html

That would have been VH-OEJ.

[Rhys Xanthis]

I support the re-naming of this thread the "Media Comedy Gold" Thread:p

I daresay the problem is idiots looking for their 15 minutes of fame by being named on a news report after calling up news agencies left right and center when they get delayed half an hr.

[Andrew M]

More media comedy

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2008/08/17/1218911438494.html

"Qantas has been forced to delay a Sydney-bound flight from London by more than 15 hours because of a problem with the plane's rudder."

More available at the link above, if you want a laugh

;)

[Trevor Sinclair]

1) Notice City Rail has been getting a rest by the Media lately?
2) 15 hr delay is annoying
3) They're mostly reporting QF - and infrequently other delays
4) As a responsible member of the Media I never touch this stuff, however, I've been aproached many times to do so, usually by QF crew.
5) Disgruntled QF staff are trying to get a message out.

[Sarah C]

5) Disgruntled QF staff are trying to get a message out.

I think you are onto something here Trevor. At the end of the day, it achieves nothing. Even some of the sites have many comments questioning why the media are reporting all of these stories. It just doesn't tarnish the airline itself, it tarnishes the whole industry, which is a real shame. The Australian airline industry is one of the best in the world for a reason.

[Lukas M]

Listen to this one.....

QANTAS continues to be plagued by a run of misfortune with a plane overnight forced to make an unscheduled stop because its toilets were too full to flush.
The fully laden 737-300:p was forced to divert to Adelaide one hour into a flight from Sydney to Perth because staff had forgotten to empy the toilets after the plane's last trip from Honolulu and consequently four of the seven weren't working, Fairfax reported.
"Four out of seven toilets were not flushing so for the comfort of our passengers we diverted to Adelaide," a Qantas spokeswoman said.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/toilet-stop-hits-qantas/2008/08/17/1218911468165.html

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

Lucas, where did that quote come from??

If you or anyone for that matter is going to copy a quote from an article, please include where it came from.

Stuart

[Michael Morrison]

Front page of SMH.com.au
http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/toilet-stop-hits-qantas/2008/08/17/1218911468165.html

[Montague S]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/toilet-stop-hits-qantas/2008/08/17/1218911468165.html

that's the article...seems they meant the 767-300. also note the LHR issue.

[Sarah C]

Listen to this one.....

http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/toilet-stop-hits-qantas/2008/08/17/1218911468165.html

I had to laugh at that. Do editors not read these stories before they print them, particularly when they mentioned the 767 in the first line of the story. :p

[Jamie D]

lol qantas really are putting themselves in the **** now arent they

[Daniel M]

perhaps this forum could benefit from a seperate section, detailing all the media reports on QF:eek:

[Stephen Brown]

It was probably a load of Fairfax and News limited Journalists on the plane beforehand, they're all full of ****.

[Steve S... 2]

Yeah if I had my way I'd ban the nightly 6pm news on all channels... the media does this to everyone/everything - make it spicy and make the $$$... problem is, some people believe what they see/hear and go back for more... :rolleyes:

Also, I do not like advertised crime.

[Stephen Brown]

Steve,

The motto is simple...If it bleeds it leads....

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

After sending the SMH an email outlining their many errors, they have just advised me they have now corrected the story.

Here is the corrected article:

Unscheduled toilet stop adds to Qantas woes
Annabel Crabb
August 18, 2008


THE run of bad luck afflicting Qantas took a graphic turn last night when a fully loaded 767 flying from Sydney to Perth was forced to stage an unplanned landing in Adelaide so its toilets could be emptied.

Flight staff on QF571 told passengers that Sydney ground staff had forgotten to empty the toilets on the 767-300, which originated in Honolulu.

By the time the flight had been in the air for an hour, three of the toilets had ceased to function.

"They told us that under any reasonable calculation, the rest of them would go pretty quickly," one businessman told the Herald during the plane's cleaning stop in Adelaide.

"Four out of seven toilets were not flushing so for the comfort of our passengers we diverted to Adelaide," a Qantas spokeswoman said.

Passengers were "exasperated", the businessman said, but otherwise resigned to the delay.

"All this discussion of toilets triggered an urgent need to go in just about everyone," he said.

"We did ask for more red wine to be brought on board, but it was felt not to be a priority."

The unscheduled Qantas toilet stop comes only hours after the national carrier was forced to delay Sydney-bound QF2 from London for more than 15 hours after a problem with its rudder.

The flight had been scheduled to leave London's Heathrow airport at 7.15am (AEST) yesterday, but eventually took-off closer to 11pm, the spokeswoman confirmed.

Both incidents are only the latest in a string of problems that have beset the Qantas fleet since an explosion tore a hole in the side of an aircraft flying from Hong Kong to Melbourne on July 25.

with Dylan Welch



The original story stated a 737-300.

I advised them that it wasn't a 737-300 but in fact a 767-300ER, as the 737-300 doesn't operate the Sydney - Perth Route (as Qantas doesn't operate any in Australia, as they are all NZ Rego).
I further advised them that a 737-300 only had 3 toilets on board not seven as stated.

And on Sundays, it makes a Scheduled stop over in Adelaide for 35mins.

Stuart

[Rhys Xanthis]

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,24197993-36335,00.html

AIR travel, despite the rash of safety incidents surrounding Qantas, has never been safer.

By any measure, travellers are far safer in the air than driving to the airport, according to Boeing and the US National Safety Council.

Every day, six million people are in the air and they're 22 times safer than being on the road, the council says.

In fact, in a typical six-month period in the US, 21,000 die on the roads, which equates to the total loss of life in commercial airline accidents since 1960.

Since 1960, air safety has soared from 45 fatal accidents per million departures to less than one today as the industry learns from accidents, engines become more reliable and cockpit technology enters the computer age.

These factors, plus relentless oversight by the industry, led to an all-time low for accidents in 2007, with 25 fatal accidents and 744 fatalities. Most airline accidents and deaths occur in Third World countries, which account for 90 per cent of accidents but only 10 per cent of air traffic.

According to the International Air Transport Association, even Russian airline safety has improved.

Indonesia and southern Africa continue to be black spots.

Earlier this year, commenting on the improvement in air safety, association director general and chief executive Giovanni Bisignani said: "Air travel is the safest mode of transportation.

"In the 10 years from 1998, the accident rate was reduced by almost half – from 1.34 accidents per million flights to 0.75. The number of fatalities dropped significantly in 2007."

The worst accident in 2007 was the TAM Airbus A320 crash-landing at Sao Paulo, which killed 187 passengers and crew and 12 people on the ground, according to Flight International.

The industry journal added that aside from that crash and one in Russia, which killed six of 57 passengers, "all the accidents to passenger aircraft took place in second or third-world economies or involved aircraft registered in them – usually both."

The country with the worst record was the Democratic Republic of Congo, with six fatal crashes, while Indonesia had two of the worst fatal accidents for 2007 – an Adam Air Boeing 737-400 and a Garuda 737-400 at Yogyakarta, which killed 21 people, including five Australians.

At 0.09 and 0.29 accidents per million flights, North America and Europe had hull-loss (total plane destruction) rates better than the global average, the association says.

The spate of accidents in Indonesia pushed the Asia-Pacific accident rate to 2.76 hull losses per million flights, while the Latin American accident rate was 1.61 hull losses per million flights.

Africa had the worst record at 4.09 hull losses per million flights, making it six times less safe than the rest of the world.

The association is working with African airlines to bring them up to standard.

Possibly the main factor in reducing aircraft accidents has been the dramatic increase in cockpit automation.

An excellent example is the 747-400m, which features a fully computerised cockpit with 600 fewer dials and gauges than the analogue 747-200/300 and thus a significant reduction in procedures, particularly for safety.

For instance, for decompressions such as occurred on the Qantas QF30 flight last month there are just four procedures on the 747-400 compared with 20 for the early models.

The fatality safety record in commercial service of more recent aircraft, such as the 777, A330, A340 and 717 is perfect.

Airbus introduced the computerised "glass cockpit" with the A320 range in the mid-1980s, followed by the 747-400 in the early 1990s.

The perfect safety record of the 717, operated by QantasLink, affords an interesting snapshot of the effect that technology has had on aircraft safety.

This is the ultimate development of an aircraft that started life as the Douglas DC-9 in 1965, which was operated by Ansett and Trans Australian Airlines.

In its early years the DC-9 had a crash rate of 1.26 per million departures and an updated model, the DC-9 Super 80, renamed the MD-80, has a crash rate of 0.43 per million.

The ultimate version, the MD-95, renamed 717 after the merger with Boeing in 1997, has a perfect record.

Qantas continues to hold its perfect jet safety record, flying 330,000 flight sectors a year with 222 aircraft to 144 destinations.

The airline's last loss of an aircraft was on August 24 1960, when a Lockheed L-1049C Super Constellation suffered an engine failure in the No3 engine on take-off from Mauritius to the Cocos Islands on route to Perth.

The aircraft overran the runaway, ended up in a ditch and caught fire, but quick action by the 12 crew enabled the 38 passengers to escape.

Prior to 1960, Qantas suffered a number of crashes and fatalities, mostly during World War II.

Something refreshing to put it into perspective

[Bernie P]

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,24197993-36335,00.html



Something refreshing to put it into perspective

Almost looks like a bit of 'spin doctoring' to me, or a report that maybe Qantas commissioned?? Call me a sceptic I know, but this smells a little too rosy for me!

[Ash W]

Almost looks like a bit of 'spin doctoring' to me, or a report that maybe Qantas commissioned?? Call me a sceptic I know, but this smells a little too rosy for me!

Spin doctoring? The funny thing is this is probably the truest report yet.

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Almost looks like a bit of 'spin doctoring' to me, or a report that maybe Qantas commissioned?? Call me a sceptic I know, but this smells a little too rosy for me!

Declaration: Geoff Thomas writes for AA

The writer of this article probably had the greater interests of the aviation industry in mind when he wrote this. No doubt he's just trying to even up the balance a little in response to alot of the drivel that has been written and said latey!

[Ash W]

Declaration: Geoff Thomas writes for AA

The writer of this article probably had the greater interests of the aviation industry in mind when he wrote this. No doubt he's just trying to even up the balance a little in response to alot of the drivel that has been written and said latey!

Geoff Thomas, at least he knows what he is talking about, unlike the other hacks.

[Paul McFarlane]

Almost looks like a bit of 'spin doctoring' to me, or a report that maybe Qantas commissioned?? Call me a sceptic I know, but this smells a little too rosy for me!

Isn't this type of article a good thing? There is post upon post in these forums bagging the hysteria creating articles that appear in naive publications and now that news.com.au have published something a little more positive (maybe a step in the right direction), we're suspicious?

I'm confused...:confused:

Just my 2 cents..

Paul M

[Bernie P]

Isn't this type of article a good thing? There is post upon post in these forums bagging the hysteria creating articles that appear in naive publications and now that news.com.au have published something a little more positive (maybe a step in the right direction), we're suspicious?

I'm confused...:confused:

Just my 2 cents..

Paul M

I was just wondering, if it WAS good news, or simply QANTAS put something out there to divert attention AWAY from themselves. It happens...

I do honestly hope, that it is a step in the right direction, hell knows, they do need it! Good luck to them I say...

[Ash W]

I was just wondering, if it WAS good news, or simply QANTAS put something out there to divert attention AWAY from themselves. It happens...

I do honestly hope, that it is a step in the right direction, hell knows, they do need it! Good luck to them I say...

It wasn't Qantas who wrote it and they appear to be mentioned only because they are topical at the moment. It seems the reason for the article is crash statisics for 2007 have just been released (in the US).

[Ryan N]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/grounded-passengers-in-limbo/2008/08/20/1218911816455.html

[Brenden S]

ZXB was the offending aircraft. It actually flew, and when it came back there was a lot of water coming out of the cargo hold. Also OGL is over at the intl getting number 2 engine changed after a oil leak grounded it yesterday, also going to melbourne.

[Raymond Rowe]

If it was any other airline other than the 2 protected species we have now CASA would have grounded the airline. I like to know why this has not happened to QF. It is becoming a very big safety concern and casa is doing JACK.

[Andrew P]

If it was any other airline other than the 2 protected species we have now CASA would have grounded the airline. I like to know why this has not happened to QF. It is becoming a very big safety concern and casa is doing JACK.

Raymond

what a load of bulldust you have sprouted here

Banjo

[Marty H]

Raymond

what a load of bulldust you have sprouted here

Banjo

Couldnt have said it better myself.

[Marty H]

If it was any other airline other than the 2 protected species we have now CASA would have grounded the airline. I like to know why this has not happened to QF. It is becoming a very big safety concern and casa is doing JACK.

How have we got two 'protected species' Ray???? CASA are investigating QF, and what concerns would they have with Virgin Blue?????

[Adam J]

Regarding Raymonds post suggesting CASA should ground Qantas.

Could somebody outline the factors which would actually lead CASA to take such action, and how realistic a chance of this actually happening.

If this was to happen the ramifications would be huge. Am I right in recalling that CASA grounded Ansetts 747 fleet at one stage?

I am not intending to suggest this should happen to Qantas just a genuine enquiry as to what would lead to this.

Cheers

Adam J

[Grant Smith]

If it was any other airline other than the 2 protected species we have now CASA would have grounded the airline. I like to know why this has not happened to QF. It is becoming a very big safety concern and casa is doing JACK.

http://emoticons4u.com/mad/1106.gif

[Clarke P]

Incident: Qantas B763 near Perth on Aug 20th 2008, ruptured water tank

A Qantas Boeing 767-300, flight QF480 from Perth,WA to Melbourne,VI (Australia), had to return to Perth after a water tank ruptured about 30 minutes into the flight, leaving toilets and washbasins without supply. The airplane landed back about 80 minutes after departure. The flight was cancelled.

The passengers on the "anything but full flight" were rebooked on other flights, after Qantas - seriously short of aircraft at the moment - could not supply a replacement aircraft.

Passengers reported, that they could see the water dripping down the side of the airplane while deboarding the aircraft.

A Qantas spokeswoman said, they had a "technical issue with potable water. There was no water on the airplane, which was discovered upon takeoff".

http://avherald.com/h?article=40b718c2

[Kent Broadhead]

RAm I right in recalling that CASA grounded Ansetts 747 fleet at one stage?
No :-)

It was their 767 fleet. Twice.

Kent

PS. the 734 issue is the only recent one which strikes me as "systemic". Media reporting is unlikely to be an accurate representation of frequency or severity of incidents. In the olden days (pre-a month ago), how many times would an equipment sub have been reported. And who really cares, as long as the plane which takes off is safe?

[D Chan]

Could somebody outline the factors which would actually lead CASA to take such action, and how realistic a chance of this actually happening.

well, losing the Air Operator's Certificate (AOC) would be one such factor

CASA takes 'enforcement action' when it detects non-compliance with obligations imposed by the Act, the Civil Aviation Regulations and the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations and other instruments made under the Act or the Regulations. Non-compliance in this context may involve contravention of the Act or the Regulations, but it may also involve a breach of a condition attaching to a licence or certificate, or acts or omissions which indicate that a person no longer meets the standards required by the legislation for the holding of a licence or certificate.

CASA has a range of enforcement options and takes an holistic approach to safety enforcement by utilising the most appropriate enforcement remedy or remedies given the facts of the particular breach and its safety implications. These enforcement options are exercised in accordance with the procedures set out in the Enforcement Manual: http://www.casa.gov.au/manuals/regulate/enf/index.htm

[Brenden S]

There was a 737-800 here at Perth tonight which had some attention to it by the firey's. The aircraft was shut down for a while to. Don't know the full story.

[Lukas M]

Its Jetstar's turn now....
A JETSTAR plane partially slid off a runway in Cambodia as it came in to land in wet weather, slashing a tyre.
The Jetstar Asia flight from Singapore to Siem Reap-Angkor international airport, carrying 144 passengers, landed in the rain yesterday morning, with reports the plane’s fuselage also scraped along the ground during landing.

A Jetstar spokeswoman said an investigation was being carried out.
“It was a flight from Singapore to Siem Reap… it was a very rainy day,” the spokeswoman said.

“When (staff) did a go-around of the aircraft after landing, they discovered that one of the left hand tyres wasn’t fully deflated but it obviously had some cuts on it, and there was mud on the aircraft.

“There was not permanent damage to the aircraft and no injury to passengers."
“Because there was only damage to the left-hand wheels, it would be incorrect to say that the aircraft totally left the runway… there was nothing wrong with the right-hand wheels.
All passengers “disembarked as normal”, she said.
The A320 would fly back to Singapore later today.
A NEWS.com.au reader said the plane “left the runway and blew a tyre and scraped the ground”.
Another reader, who was booked on the plane’s flight back to Singapore yesterday, said the airline put him up at a motel while another flight was organised.

“We’ve been told that technical difficulties in Siem Reap have caused the cancellation for a full 24 hours,” he said last night.
An airline spokeswoman said all passengers were later put on another flight.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24223400-26103,00.html

[Andrew P]

said the airline put him up at a motel

as most motels in Asia rent by the hour, good to see 3K is keeping their customers in suitable surrounds

Banjo

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

Qantas in the News again for all the wrong Reasons.

This article is from ninemsn.com.au

Qantas flight suffers engine trouble
18:47 AEST Sun Aug 31 2008


A Qantas flight from Singapore to London has landed in the German city of Frankfurt after a vibration caused the crew to shut down one of its engines.

The Boeing 747-400 aircraft, carrying a Qantas flight crew and 350 passengers, landed at Frankfurt en route to London on Sunday afternoon (AEST) "due to the captain being alerted to a vibration in one of the engines," a Qantas spokeswoman said.

"As is standard procedure the engine was shut down," she said.

"There was no safety issue at any time and the aircraft continued to Frankfurt, where it landed without incident."

Qantas engineers are investigating the cause of the engine problem.

Passengers were diverted to other carriers, either flying direct to London or to other European destinations "with what we expect will be a minimum of delay", the spokeswoman said.



Anyone know ofthe Rego??

Stuart

[Josh F]

Its Jetstar's turn now....

That is Jetstar Asia Lukas - for clarity.

[Bob C]

Apparently an Emirates A345 was delayed for more than 16 hours at Perth earlier this week.

Does anyone know why ?

[Andrew M]

Funny that I dont' recall reading about that delay....... ;)

[Bruce Bramwell]

Apparently an Emirates A345 was delayed for more than 16 hours at Perth earlier this week.

Does anyone know why ?

A345????????

(yes I know its an A340-500 but never knew they came into perth?)

[Rhys Xanthis]

A345????????

(yes I know its an A340-500 but never knew they came into perth?)

2 x daily a345 with emirates, SAA 5 x weekly (not monday & thursday) A343 (upgrading to an a346 temporarily soon) and air mauritius a343 (not sure of frequency).

[Marty H]

2 x daily a345 with emirates, SAA 5 x weekly (not monday & thursday) A343 (upgrading to an a346 temporarily soon) and air mauritius a343 (not sure of frequency).

Twice a week.

[Krzysztof M]

For whatever reason JQ3 was operated by QF767 tonight, having departed 34L just before 9pm, almost 3hrs late.

[Sarah C]

For whatever reason JQ3 was operated by QF767 tonight, having departed 34L just before 9pm, almost 3hrs late.

Could have been the replacement aircraft for the charter to Phuket yesterday. JQ don't have A330's lying around so they might have subbed the 330 on that flight to operate the charter.

[Krzysztof M]

Thanks Sarah. I wasn't aware they did an extra charter to Phuket (possibly something to do with recent airport closures in Thailand). That would've caused the Honolulu-bound aircraft subsitution.

[Philip Argy]

It's becoming difficult to resist the conclusion that something has changed at Qantas, despite the denials.

First we have fumes in the cabin reported to have forced the cancellation of three Melbourne flights today, and I can personally report that 50% of the toilets on VH-OGS went u/s on flight 581 from SYD-PER this morning after one holding tank reported itself as full.

[Raymond Rowe]

It is all called saving money.

[Nigel C]

No, it's called flavour of the month.

The stuff that's getting reported now is stuff that in the past wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. They aren't 'new' or 'rare' events; they happen more than the travelling public would generally care to know about.
Even CASA admitted that the rates of incidents hasn't risen; it's merely getting reported more in the media. (see http://yssyforum.net/board/showthread.php?t=1401)

Hopefully the NSW ALP's demise (or any other significant event) will take some attention away from this incessant pursuit the media has with Qantas.

Anyway, how good's the weather been up and down the east coast recently?

[D Chan]

First we have fumes in the cabin reported to have forced the cancellation of three Melbourne flights today.

These things happen on aircraft of airlines all over the world. Remember the BAe146? Those were notorious for fumes!

[Adam P.]

There is no doubt that the public perception of Qantas is not as high as it once was. "Glad I'm not flying Qantas" is a statement I've heard a lot recently from people not involved in the industry.

Those who are in the industry, of course, are fully aware that niggling issues like those we're seeing reported at the moment are normal for any system as complex as an aeroplane. Normally they wouldn't be reported in the wider media. Unfortunately, attempts to educate the great unwashed about this simple truth are difficult to make - people just don't want to believe that an aeroplane can and does break down.

[Andrew M]

It will be very interesting when the first V Australia flight out of Sydney is cancelled due to a tech problem.

Something to think about

The plane is scheduled to leave at 21:15 Sydney time

The curfew starts at 23:00

While (at this stage) the plane is scheduled to sit on the tarmac in SYD for 14 or so hours before the SYD-LAX flight, I would safely say it won't be too long before a 1hour 45 min delay causes a big headache for VA. A plane can go tech at anytime, regardless of the care it is given in the 14 hour rest period in SYD.

The issue with the flight leaving that late SYD time is there is no chance to get passengers on any other LAX flight as the last SYD-LAX flight on QF/UA/NZ is around 14:00 from memory (someone can correct me)

Added to that with a fleet of 1-3 planes, they won't be able to pull one from anywhere to fix the problem the next day.

So it will be off to a hotel etc etc for the night.

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Those who are in the industry, of course, are fully aware that niggling issues like those we're seeing reported at the moment are normal for any system as complex as an aeroplane. Normally they wouldn't be reported in the wider media. Unfortunately, attempts to educate the great unwashed about this simple truth are difficult to make - people just don't want to believe that an aeroplane can and does break down.

Tell me about it! :rolleyes:

We get calls at the mag all the time from mass media outlets wanting "expert" comment on what's happening. But often when we tell them that we don't believe it's systematic and that many of the occurances happen daily to most airlines around the world, they often don't want to go through with the interview or don't print what we've told them.:mad:

The main exception seems to be the ABC, both National and regional stations.

Cheers

[Andrew M]

But often when we tell them that we don't believe it's systematic and that many of the occurances happen daily to most airlines around the world, they often don't want to go through with the interview or don't print what we've told them.:mad:


That's why you would never get a job at the Herald Sun, Sydney Morning Herald etc etc

You dont' care enough about rubbish headlines ;)

Full credit for you not spreading crap around that is unwarranted !

Thinking back to Dec 07 into Feb 08 of this year, there was at least 3 days where AC cancelled the SYD-YVR flights due to tech issues with BRAND NEW 777's, yet it never made the news here at all.

Funny that :eek:

[Ryan N]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24307876-29277,00.html

Electrical fault grounds Qantas jet
By David Barbeler
September 07, 2008 06:11pm
Article from: AAP

ANOTHER Qantas flight has been delayed due to technical difficulties, leaving 318 passengers in Brisbane 13 hours behind schedule.

Qantas flight QF175 was due to depart Brisbane for Los Angeles at 11am (AEST).

However, due to a suspected electrical fault, the plane now won't take off until midnight.

A spokesman for Qantas said the flight was delayed due to a fault in the indicator wiring in the electrical wing of the Boeing 747.

"We needed to source a part from Sydney and as a result the crew ran out of hours," he said.

"The 318 passengers have been provided accommodation."

The latest problem came just two days after 220 passengers at Melbourne airport had to get off Sydney-bound QF418 when fumes appeared inside the plane's cabin after the engines started up on Friday morning.

The passengers were accommodated on later flights, Qantas said.

And, late on Thursday night, 308 passengers due to fly from Melbourne to London were forced to camp in the terminal overnight because of damage to a plane's wing.

Flight QF29, due to have taken off at 10.50pm (AEST) on Thursday, eventually left at 6.12am on Friday.

[Philip Argy]

[-snip-]

Unfortunately, attempts to educate the great unwashed about this simple truth are difficult to make - people just don't want to believe that an aeroplane can and does break down.

Normally I agree with you, Adam, but my sample size of one has experienced more niggling issues with QF in the last 12 months than I've experienced in more than 30 years of frequent flying. That's what now converts each incident from being the unremarkable norm to the sign of something having changed either in terms of checking processes or care or employee engagement or whatever is going on.

I came back tonight from PER on VH-OGD - the a/c was fine but the On-Q video shown was from the beginning of August anticipating the Olympics and the Hyundai football competition and other August events. That's just organisational failure which in my humble opinion points to a slackness that ought not be occuring in a disciplined organisation where safety depends upon discipline and procedures being properly followed. If this were a one-off it would not rate a mention - it's someone's oversight. But it's the aggregation over too short a period of too many such incidents that simply leads me to form an opinion that all is not right.

For every flight I catch I catch two cabs or hire cars (one at each end). It used to be the case that incidents with cabs turning up late or not at all, or being unroadworthy, or drivers who were navigationally challenged were more likely to occur than an incident with the flight. That has now reversed and it's not a figment of my imagination. Unscientific it may be, but it creates a bad impression that as both a QF shareholder and platinum FF I am disappointed to get.

[Adam P.]

G'day Philip.
Fair point. It's people's own experiences that shape their opinions of things, and I can see how your impression of Qantas might have been changed by recent events.
Having said that, however, could it be that with the current level of mainstream reporting, a perception exists for the public that "Qantas is unsafe", however unfair that may be, and the very existance of this is influencing how you interpret your own experiences? In other words, are your own experiences simply reinforcing the subconscious idea (that has been generated by mass media coverage in recent weeks) that something has changed, that Qantas is not as 'safe' as it once was?

[Philip Argy]

No - on the contrary, Adam, I've been just as critical of the media for inaccurate and misleading 'reporting', so that hasn't influenced me at all. My current impressions were reached only very reluctantly and in a context where I've tried to rationalise away each incident until I have just concluded that, although each one can be rationalised, the frequency is excessive based on my past experience, and that therefore reflects un underlying trend that disappoints me.

I wish I had an explanation for what I'm observing, whether it be cost cutting, or a loss of morale and therefore employee engagement, or whatever else it might be - I don't know - but I'd really like to see the trend reversed.

[Kelvin R]

On Friday there was a 734 flying trans tasman with an emergency exit door disabled. PAX were boarded, the front door was closed and then a special briefing was given by the CSM that one of the doors was disabled and could not be used. Not the greatest situation to be in I must admit especially with the wife being a nervous flyer as is.

[Philip Argy]

This afternoon's 4pm flight out of Melbourne saw VH-OGP go wheels up at about 4.58 pm. Pax were delayed in boarding by 55 minutes "so we can cool the aircraft cabin down".

It transpires that QF446 was originally due to be operated by an aircraft delayed in reaching Mebourne. So OGP, which had been under maintenance, was rushed into service before its air conditioning had been brought online. However, it had been sitting in the warm Melbourne sunshine for too long and the captain decided that pax could not tolerate the extreme heat in the cabin pending takeoff, so he ordered a compressor brought in to cool the cabin before boarding could commence.

Touchdown in SYD on RWY 16R was at about 6.07 pm - about 50 minutes late.

But to keep objective and balanced, VH-VYH operated the 6.30 am flight from SYD-MEL this morning and we arrived EARLY a few minutes before 8 am.

[Nigel C]

"Am I just unlucky?"

I think you should be grateful and be praising the Captain for making a decision that was for the benefit and comfot for all the passengers and crew, rather than giving the media yet another petty excuse for a shot at Qantas.

Secondly, I think you should count yourself fortunate that you get the opportunity to fly on a regular basis, let alone fly at all. I am sure there are thousands out there who wish they could get the chance to fly just once, delays or no delays.



I'm sorry if I sound a little harsh, but I think it's time everyone put the Qantas bashing to bed.
If all anyone has to worry about is the delays incurred by Qantas (or any other airline for that matter), then their life must be pretty rosey and they mustn't have anything else going in life.

End rant.

[Philip Argy]

I don't think my post reads as, or would incite, Qantas bashing.

[Eli B]

In just over a week The Spirit of Australia will be in the media for a very exciting and historical event. Around month later the paying public will witness another investment Qantas has made in the future of its brand - indeed customers will benefit. I am waiting in anticipation! It is time to turn the spotlight onto something positive :)

All that aside it will be a great time to see the Qantas A380 in a port near you before it starts its commercial flying (initially MEL SYD LAX). IMHO it looks great... get your cameras ready!