Air France 777F

[Blake Riley]

First 777F airline in livery has been painted for Air France
pictures URL below
must say :D it does look really good looking forward to see the Fedex 777

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-France-Cargo/Boeing-777-F28/1377786/M/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-France-Cargo/Boeing-777-F28/1377787/M/

[Scott Lindsell]

Has been painted for a couple of weeks now but just sitting idle on the ramp awaiting first flight. :(
S.

[Scott Lindsell]

Test flown down to BFI today to continue flight testing of the model along side the 777-200LRF. Both were up today. :)

[Scott Lindsell]

Okay here is a close up I took today for the 777 lovers! :D
Boring unedit JPEG though. RAW's all mine.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bfiguy/2762155722/sizes/o/

Scott.

[Erik H. Bakke]

Quite interesting that they use the very generic model name of B777F, and not B777-200LRF. (Or even -200F)

Would seem to indicate that Boeing are not intending to offer any other B777 variants as freighters, so I just thought a model name of -200LRF would be more future-proof.

How does this compare with the introduction of other new-build freighter aircraft from Boeing? Did they start out with the generic model name or with the more specific model name?

[Shameel Kumar]

Would seem to indicate that Boeing are not intending to offer any other B777 variants as freighters, so I just thought a model name of -200LRF would be more future-proof.

Yeh, I thought about that too, but other than the -200LRF, what other 777 freighter would be worth building? There's no point in creating a 777-300ERF because the 747-8F fills that mission and then some.

So as cool as a 777-200LRF sounds, I don't think there will be any issue with abbreviating the aircraft to '777F' because there won't be any other 777 freighter model (except for a further update 777-200LRF if Boeing decides to go down that path to respond to the A350-1000 and -900F).


It's great to see the 777F in the Dreamliner livery... will this be a permanent thing for that aircraft with just an Air France tail, or will it be painted into AF colours prior to delivery (ala first 772LR for PA)?

I've read that the first 787 for ANA will remain in Dreamliner colours (bar the tail), so is this a new thing Boeing wants to do with new models/variants? If so, I like! :D

[Rhys Xanthis]

I would think airlines wouldnt be all too happy flying their planes around with only the tail to identify them....

[Shameel Kumar]

I would think airlines wouldnt be all too happy flying their planes around with only the tail to identify them....


Well not every aircraft, just one of them. Look at China Airline's 747 in hybrid Dreamliner livery. Lion Air with hybrid Dreamliner livery....and it's pretty much official that this will also be the case for the first 787.

Why would you think airlines wouldn't be happy about it having one of their aircraft in such a livery?

China Airlines 747:
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/photorelease/q4/041207h.jpg

Lion Air 737:
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2007/photorelease/q2/K63782-01_lg.jpg

Air Berlin 737:
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/photorelease/q2/040503g.jpg

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Boeing gives substantial discounts on these aircraft for them to stay in Dreamliner liveries, so the airlines are often happy to do it.

[Rhys Xanthis]

Boeing gives substantial discounts on these aircraft for them to stay in Dreamliner liveries, so the airlines are often happy to do it.

Ahh, i thought that must have been the case! Some pretty cheap publicity for Boeing then, considering all they really lose is the discount which is costs related rather than shelling out loads for advertising! That and if its there to stay for the life of the plane, it could easily be 20+ years.

[Shameel Kumar]

...shelling out loads for advertising!

Rhys, you bring up a topic there which has always had me thinking. Why do Boeing and Airbus need to do any advertising or marketing to the public?

I mean, I understand that to a certain degree it is needed so that the general public accepts the aircraft and at times prefers to fly a particular aircraft.....but on the whole, it is not the public who purchase the aircraft, it's the airlines...and the airline's certainly don't need to be exposed to marketing campaigns such as TV and magazine advertisements because they surely already know which planes are being offered (heck, Boeing and Airbus probably approach them to let them know what models are being planned).

So in simple my question is: why do Boeing and Airbus need to actively advertise to the general public? I've seen Boeing and GE Aviation ads on US television, we see Boeing ads in aviation magazines, and of course there's the highly-publicised sales battle between Boeing and Airbus.

I understand marketing campaigns based around aircraft such as the 747, A380 and 787 because the general public may make a concious effort to fly on these aircraft...but on the whole, the majority of passengers wouldn't know the difference between an A320 and a 777-300ER. So why waste money advertising to the public when it's the airline's who purchase the planes?

[Rhys Xanthis]

Thats a very good question, but i think here we need to remember that although Boeing and Airbus are huge, they aren't the only aircraft manufaturers in the world, and would have some competition in the narrowbody sector of the market.

Still, its a very good question...i think you might find that Airbus and Boeing do a fair bit of direct marketing to the airlines for latest models and stuff, bringing them to factories etc to show them off, and also to make a fairly big appearance at airshows too (eg Dubai, Paris).

Perhaps we can get someone like Andrew to answer here if no one has any other ideas ?

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Shameel

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Both Airbus and Boeing advertise to the travelling public in the hope of building up a profile amongst the high yielding frequent traveller who does know an A320 from a 777-300ER.

Although fuel burn and dispatch rates and operating costs are obviously taken into account when purchasing an airliner, the frequent traveller these days is far more educated as to what he or she flies on, and thus he or she wields a lot of influence with airlines as well.

Re the manufacturers advertising in magazines (such as ours), there is probably two reasons why they do it. The first is to keep their products in front of airline decision makers, especially when an airline has a new aircraft or replacement aircraft campaign underway. But I also suspect they spread the advertising 'love' around a little because most have an interest in supporting a viable aviation media.

The painting of an aircraft in Dreamliner colours though is a curious one for me - unless you're a tragic spotter, how often does a passenger actually see and take notice of the exterior of the aircraft they travel on?

Cheers

[Bernie P]

I would think airlines wouldnt be all too happy flying their planes around with only the tail to identify them....

Just to add another quandary into the mix, but how does it differ to the Star Alliance theme aircraft... It is an 'Alliance' paintjob, with barely any identification to the company that it is flying for by way of (generally) small logo decals!

Just my 2c worth, and to add to the discussion, not to start a war and peace epic!
:D

[Andrew P]

the high yielding frequent traveller who does know an A320 from a 777-300ER.

I would say most high yielding frequent traveller haven't got a clue what type of plane they are on

Banjo

[Erik H. Bakke]

Both Airbus and Boeing advertise to the travelling public in the hope of building up a profile amongst the high yielding frequent traveller who does know an A320 from a 777-300ER.

This applies perfectly well for passenger aircraft. I know for a fact that when my family is coming down here in February/March next year, they have been actively searching out flights operated by the A380, and trying to find B777 flights for those segments where the A380 might not be available.

The B777 is from personal experience, but the A380 is purely because it's new and they want to see it for themselves if it is as good as the media/advertising say it is.

But, to bring this discussion closer to topic, this doesn't seem to apply to the same degree for freighters. I just can't see any company say "I'd like to send this shipment to Paris, but only if it will be going on the new B777F."

There's got to be other important factors in these decisions as well. Would potential passengers see these flying billboards and think "Hey, that looks cool, I want to fly with them next time"? In that case, the difference between a freighter and a passenger aircraft would not matter that much, as most people would only look at the airlines name and logo, if even that.

[Rhys Xanthis]

Just to add another quandary into the mix, but how does it differ to the Star Alliance theme aircraft... It is an 'Alliance' paintjob, with barely any identification to the company that it is flying for by way of (generally) small logo decals!


However, that said, they are part of the alliance and as such would be getting codeshare flights/pax from the alliance partners, so its more of a winner from the airlines point of view i would've thought? Keep the alliance happy and going and get more passengers on codeshare!

[Bernie P]

However, that said, they are part of the alliance and as such would be getting codeshare flights/pax from the alliance partners, so its more of a winner from the airlines point of view i would've thought? Keep the alliance happy and going and get more passengers on codeshare!

Rhys,
How true that is, BUT, as to the paint scheme of the aircraft involved, there is not a lot saying as to who owns (or at least has the 'keys' for) it. There would be less on these birds than that of the Dreamliner scheme with the tail in the operators colours! ;)

[Scott Lindsell]

I would say most high yielding frequent traveller haven't got a clue what type of plane they are on

Banjo


Hey Andrew.
I used to deal with some very high profile 'high yield' flyers and I'd say 80% knew the types extremely well. In fact it staggered me as to how many knew the registrations due to wanting certain configerations and upgraded aircraft over the older seats etc.
Cheers,
Scott.

[Ash W]

Advertising isn't used just to sell something. A lot is actually targeted at employee's to help build moral etc. Indeed I recall the the Enya theme Ansett adds years ago had no real point except for for creating a positive immage for the company, which included the staff.

With these aircraft being painted in Boeing house colours (why are people calling them Dreamliner colours?) maybe the reason is building pride in the Boeing company. Afterall it must be a serious embarassment to them that they are yet to get a 787 into the sky, and indeed it seems even the rollout of the 787 was contrived. So why not paint some aircraft in house colours?

[Grant Smith]

With these aircraft being painted in Boeing house colours (why are people calling them Dreamliner colours?)

Possibly due to the 787 being the first aircraft to be conveyed in this colourscheme.

Sounds a bit more attractive than "house colour" too ;)

[Ash W]

Possibly due to the 787 being the first aircraft to be conveyed in this colourscheme.

Sounds a bit more attractive than "house colour" too ;)

Ironic the so called Dreamliner (house) colours have flown, but as yet not on a Dreamliner.

[Shameel Kumar]

With these aircraft being painted in Boeing house colours (why are people calling them Dreamliner colours?) maybe the reason is building pride in the Boeing company. Afterall it must be a serious embarassment to them that they are yet to get a 787 into the sky, and indeed it seems even the rollout of the 787 was contrived. So why not paint some aircraft in house colours?

I'm not all that convinced of that 'embarrassment' reasoning, because every Boeing aircraft to feature the Dreamliner livery (China Airlines 744, Lion Air 737, Air Berlin 737, 1st B772LR, 787 Roll Out aircraft) with the exception of the very new B777F were painted in this livery well before any 787 delays were announced.
But your point in general about it being an example of internal marketing aimed at bringing pride and solidarity amongst employees could well be one of the factors why Boeing has painted these airline's in this way.


Back to the question I posed earlier, I can understand the general fanfare that Airbus and Boeing try to create with their 'marque' aircraft such as the 747, A380 and 787. We've seen what an iconic aircraft the 747s become over the years synonymously being referred as a 'Jumbo'.... we've also seen the great public interest in the A380 and I bet there are a lot of examples like Erik 's example of his family purposely trying to fly the A380 (heck, if I were to ever fly to Asia or Europe I'd actively pursue a flight on it too)....and now we're seeing an unprecedented level of reporting and access to the 787 even before the delays were mentioned.... so it's completely understandable that both Airbus and Boeing put a lot of marketing dollars towards creating these 'icons' to represent their company..

.....BUT....

..what gets me all puzzled are ads talking about how the 737 is the best short-haul aircraft with great field performance, great turn around times, and impressive efficiency and so on. I've seen similar ads in relation the 777F about it's technical credentials and so on..... so pretty much these ads have contained technical information which the general public could care less about.

Just puzzling at times... :confused:



Ironic the so called Dreamliner (house) colours have flown, but as yet not on a Dreamliner.

Oh but it has... in the belly of the Dreamlifter that is. ;):D

[Ash W]

I'm not all that convinced of that 'embarrassment' reasoning, because every Boeing aircraft to feature the Dreamliner livery (China Airlines 744, Lion Air 737, Air Berlin 737, 1st B772LR, 787 Roll Out aircraft) with the exception of the very new B777F were painted in this livery well before any 787 delays were announced.
...

Think you missed the point. What I was getting at is the livery was cleary designed for the Dreamliner (although I still maintain it should be called House colours) as it is the first Boeing jet which actually needs to be painted. It must kill them that it was first painted on the 787 which is yet to get even close to the sky, yet here we have several others already flying. Nothing to do with the delay, more to do with the fact it hasn't even flown yet and not likley to fly for a while yet.

So much for the record build, certification delivery plans.

[Shameel Kumar]

It must kill them that it was first painted on the 787 which is yet to get even close to the sky, yet here we have several others already flying. Nothing to do with the delay, more to do with the fact it hasn't even flown yet and not likley to fly for a while yet.


I'm not too sure what you're trying to get at here Ash W?

Yes the 787 was the reason why Boeing created this new fantastics looking Dreamliner livery (or Boeing House Colour to appease you)...and yes we first saw this livery on computer-generated images of the 7E7 which has now become the 787... but, it was never the plan that the first physical aircraft to be painted in the Dreamliner livery was the first 787 produced.

Important dates of Boeing aircraft painted in the 'Dreamliner/House Colour' livery:
787 Roll Out: July 8, 2007 (Boeing met this date as originally planned)
Lion Air 737-900ER delivery: April 27, 2007
777-200LR first flight: March 8, 2005
China Airlines 747-400 delivery: December 7, 2004
Ryanair 737-800 delivery: October 1, 2004
Air Berlin 737-700 delivery: May 18, 2004

It's pretty obvious to see that it was never Boeing's plan to have the 787 as the first Boeing aircraft to feature the new Dreamliner/House Colour livery.... so no, I don't think it's killing them that all these other Boeing aircraft are flying around in the Dreamliner livery while the 787 still is yet to get in the air, because that wasnever the plan.

If anything, by having all these other Boeing aircraft flying around in the Dreamliner livery, Boeing is creating even more buzz and awareness of the 787 because that paintscheme is synonymous with the 787 Dreamliner.
Also, by naming this new livery the 'Dreamliner' livery eventhough it's being featured on aircraft other than the 787 provides a halo-effect benefit for the other Boeing aircraft because they have a visible link with the 787, and therefore benefit from the futuristic, advanced technology, next-generation connotations that the media has tagged onto the 787.
Same reason why everyday car company's still create exciting performance cars.. because eventhough those sports cars don't provide a great return on investment in dollar figures, they enhance brand's image and intangible value, and this improvement in the brand's image is transcended onto all the vehicles in their line-up.

[Ash W]

I'm not too sure what you're trying to get at here Ash W?

Yes the 787 was the reason why Boeing created this new fantastics looking Dreamliner livery (or Boeing House Colour to appease you)...and yes we first saw this livery on computer-generated images of the 7E7 which has now become the 787... but, it was never the plan that the first physical aircraft to be painted in the Dreamliner livery was the first 787 produced.

Important dates of Boeing aircraft painted in the 'Dreamliner/House Colour' livery:
787 Roll Out: July 8, 2007 (Boeing met this date as originally planned)
Lion Air 737-900ER delivery: April 27, 2007
777-200LR first flight: March 8, 2005
China Airlines 747-400 delivery: December 7, 2004
Ryanair 737-800 delivery: October 1, 2004
Air Berlin 737-700 delivery: May 18, 2004

It's pretty obvious to see that it was never Boeing's plan to have the 787 as the first Boeing aircraft to feature the new Dreamliner/House Colour livery.... so no, I don't think it's killing them that all these other Boeing aircraft are flying around in the Dreamliner livery while the 787 still is yet to get in the air, because that wasnever the plan.

If anything, by having all these other Boeing aircraft flying around in the Dreamliner livery, Boeing is creating even more buzz and awareness of the 787 because that paintscheme is synonymous with the 787 Dreamliner.
Also, by naming this new livery the 'Dreamliner' livery eventhough it's being featured on aircraft other than the 787 provides a halo-effect benefit for the other Boeing aircraft because they have a visible link with the 787, and therefore benefit from the futuristic, advanced technology, next-generation connotations that the media has tagged onto the 787.
Same reason why everyday car company's still create exciting performance cars.. because eventhough those sports cars don't provide a great return on investment in dollar figures, they enhance brand's image and intangible value, and this improvement in the brand's image is transcended onto all the vehicles in their line-up.

Well if the 787 wasn't the first and aircraft were painted that long ago then quite clearly it isn't Dreamliner colours. So the only correct term would be House Colours.

[Shameel Kumar]

. So the only correct term would be House Colours.

So that's what all this was about... :rolleyes:

Dreamliner colours, Boeing House Colours.... who cares what you want to call it... just go by whatever Boeing calls it. But hey, if you want, you can write a letter to Boeing stating that the politically correct name for their new paint-scheme should be 'House Colour' and not 'Dreamliner'.

Or...do yourself a favour and forget the term 'Dreamliner' ever existed. I'm sure that'll help you dream.. oops, I mean sleep at night.

Geez.

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Well if the 787 wasn't the first and aircraft were painted that long ago then quite clearly it isn't Dreamliner colours. So the only correct term would be House Colours.

Boeing calls it 'Dreamliner' colours...that's good enough for me.

[Scott Lindsell]

Okay so here it is........ the latest Boeing special scheme.....
Thanks to Drew for the photo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/smartjunco/2783752119/sizes/o/


Marks the end of the MD-80's for AS this weekend moving to an all Boeing fleet.

Scott.

[Sarah C]

That photo is awesome - love the livery on the 737 and great to see it being applied to the new AS aircraft. Looks smart with the eskimo!

[Shameel Kumar]

Doesn't matter which variant it's on, the Dreamliner livery looks fantastic!

So is this now the 4th 737 to have the Dreamliner livery? :)


Also, does Alaska have the highest ratio of special scheme -to- normal livery aircraft of any airliner in the world?

From the Disney series of schemes, to the awesome Salmon paintjob, this new livery just adds to AS's appeal. :)