Holding Patterns regular around Sydney?

[Jack B]

I flew into Sydney from Adelaide on DJ413 - VH-VUL at 7ish tonight, and it seemed to be quite an unusual flight

We were cruising, when all of a sudden we started what seemed like a normal descent, only one thing wrong-we weren't even past Canberra. We soon started a turn towards Canberra and at this stage people thought we were diverting. It wasn't for about 10 minutes after this that the captain announced we were going to be put in a holding pattern over Canberra for 27 minutes due to weather in Sydney. However, we were out of the pattern within about 10 minutes and made a bumpy approach and hard landing on 34L

Now, I know holding patterns aren't out of the ordinary, but to descend 8000 feet and circle near Canberra seems strange to me. Or am I just an amateur?:confused:

[matthew mcdonald]

I really have no idea what a normal holding pattern is for approach into Sydney. On the long weekend my flight back from Brisie was in a holding pattern for about 15 mins over Newcastle.

[phil.l]

Jack i did the same thing when flying MEL-SYD monday week ago,so i think above or around Canberra must be where they do holding patterns.

[Phil M]

Maestro can "forecast" holding out a lot further than in the old days. Holding out that far nowadays is not uncommon for planned holding.

[Scott L.]

Holding at Bindook (hmmm north of Wombeyan Caves / West of Picton - in the middle of thick scrub) S34° 10.653' E150° 6.680' or Shellys (near Marulan) S34° 42.520' E150° 0.230'.

We left Melbourne at 5pm, done two laps at Shellys and then diverted to Canberra before then departing for Sydney arriving at 8.45pm.

All the rain must have dissapeared as there was no evidence of any storm the magnitude the crew raved on about.

[Michael Mak]

My flight from Hervey Bay last year on DJ was placed in the holding pattern twice. The first time was east of Dubbo and the second time was near Newcastle. The reason was only Runway 25 was in operation. The flight was delayed 30 minutes.

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Holding at Bindook (hmmm north of Wombeyan Caves / West of Picton - in the middle of thick scrub) S34° 10.653' E150° 6.680' or Shellys (near Marulan) S34° 42.520' E150° 0.230'.

We left Melbourne at 5pm, done two laps at Shellys and then diverted to Canberra before then departing for Sydney arriving at 8.45pm.

All the rain must have dissapeared as there was no evidence of any storm the magnitude the crew raved on about.

There were a couple of big storm cells around Sydney at around 5pm yesterday...I was playing golf at Richmond and had to 'divert' to the 19th hole to avoid lightning in the vicinity! (Interestingly, they were still flying gliders at Richmond!) There were about three cells which came in one after the other from the Warragamba Dam area, just east of Richmond, and up towards Wisemans Ferry and the Central Coast.

We gave up at around 5.45 and when we got back to the Hills area could see a massive thunderhead to the south-east which would have been over the airport/Sutherland area.

There didn't appear to be alot of rain associated with it according to the radar, and it had all dissipated by around 6.30-7.00.

[NickN]

I live in Silverwater and was having a BBQ and watching the storm fronts come and go, interestingly they came in from the South West, circled around the west and then headed off to the North East and totally missed us all together. Normally our area cops it good.

Lucky I got my bass fishing at Windsor in yesterday morning!!!!

[Chris B.]

The storm cells yesterday did in fact start up over about the Warragamba Dam area and proceed to the NE engulfing Richmond and playing havoc with arrivals and departures at Sydney.

We were planned to do an ILS at Richmond (for training) but when we saw the lightning associated with the cell we diverted to Camden then fly around the back to Bathurst. CAVOK everywhere else.

As far as holding goes, ATC can instruct any suitably equipped aircraft to hold basically anywhere. For example an Airlink B1900D was enroute BTH - BIK - ODALE - SYD and got told to hold 34nm from BIK on descent to FL180 (from FL230) 3min right hand patterns. In other occaisions aircraft can be told to slow down to cross a certain waypoint at a certain time to avoid holding. ATC was quoting a 40min delay into Sydney, however I don't think I heard anyone actually holding that long.

[Mick F]

Try departing Toowoomba for Brisbane, in a pressurised turbine, and be told to cross the waypoint half way between the 2 at a certain time, which causes you to not even be able to climb out at full power, :(.

Mick

[Shameel Kumar]

On my way back from Fiji yesterday, scheduled for a 7.00pm arrival into SYD we were put in a holding pattern. As we came in on our final approach we went by some very heavy clouds, and you can easily see a curtain of rain tracking just off the shore. There were some flashes of lightning about 10mins out from landing, so it made for a bumpy descent.

I took a few photos of the heavy cloud cover over Sydney, so I'll include that in my trip report which I'll post here in a few days.

[Steve Jones]

Three QF flights were diverted (all to YSCB) last night due to the Sydney weather - 2 MEL-SYD services and a PER-SYD service.

[Darren Butterworth]

I think holding for weather over the ACT must be reasonably common. Here are some pics of us doing circle work near Canberra on a recent QF flight from Perth.

323

324

[Jack B]

I think holding for weather over the ACT must be reasonably common. Here are some pics of us doing circle work near Canberra on a recent QF flight from Perth.

323

324

Similar area and pattern to what we did

The reason people were a little anxious was how enexpected and rather rapid the descent was before we started holding, and the cabin crew were also rather unsure. One annoucned that we had begun our descent into Sydney, then another went into the flight deck and came out about 5 mins later. Then the captain told us we were just going to hold over Canberra and then we made S turns all the way into Sydney

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Looks like there may be delays this evening too - there are several small cells approaching Sydney from the west from which I can hear rumbling! :eek:

[NickN]

Is there a good weather radar site where we can monitor live weather radar?

[Anthony J]

Is there a good weather radar site where we can monitor live weather radar?
http://mirror.bom.gov.au/products/IDR033.loop.shtml
Often there is an ATC requirement to be at a certain level entering the hold so they can stack other aircraft above at 1,000ft intervals. The most efficient holding altitude for a 767 is mid to high twenties.

[Grahame Hutchison]

On the ground and in the air !

ACARS mode: B Aircraft reg: .VH-VXI
Message label: 86 Block id: 0 Msg. no: M39A
Flight id: QF0507
Message content:-
ARI
ETAB 2220YSSY
WHLCHR 00 /00MED
ASST 00MINORS 00PAX
SICK N
SI BILL N BEN....
NOT AS GDAY NOW. GOT 25 MINS HOLDING. NEW ETA 2220.
-------------------------------------[20/10/2008 08:17]

ACARS mode: 2 Aircraft reg: .VH-QPG
Message label: 86 Block id: 5 Msg. no: M66A
Flight id: QF0128
Message content:-
ARI
ETAB 2225YSSY
WHLCHR 02 / MED
ASST MINORS PAX
SICK N
SI REQ ADVISE CONX DETAILS DELAY ATC HOLDING
-------------------------------------[20/10/2008 08:37]

ACARS mode: S Aircraft reg: .VH-EBE
Message label: 87 Block id: 9 Msg. no: M92A
Flight id: JQ0037
Message content:-
OFF 0638Z. DELAY DUE
ATC TARMAC CONGEST. ETA 1255Z. RCVD WX UPDT THX. ALL GOOD HERE.
-------------------------------------[20/10/2008 18:18]

[Oliver A]

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/notammaps/ecsmlsywol.pdf

Holding for jets occurs at TARAL (near Taralga. No holding occurs at Shellys) FL210-240, usually CULIN for anything lower out of Canberra or FL250 and above when TARAL is full. So the lower and closer to Sydney you hold, the fewer jets are in front of you and the happier you should be.