NZ A320 crash

[Anthony T]

According to CNN, An Air New Zealand A320 has crashed in to the Mediterranean on a pre-delivery training flight, No other details as yet.


PARIS, France (CNN) -- A plane with seven people aboard crashed into the Mediterranean Sea on Thursday, a French regional government official told CNN.

The Airbus A320 Air New Zealand jet was on a training flight when the crash occurred about 5 p.m. (4p.m. GMT), said the official at the Maritime Prefecture in Toulon, France.

There were no immediate reports of survivors, but rescue efforts involving French navy vessels and a helicopter had been launched.

Floating debris had been located, the official said.

The test flight took off from Perpignan in southern France, the official said.

A civilian vessel saw the crash take place off the coast near Perpignan

[Rhys Xanthis]

Sources familiar with the situation state that the aircraft is owned by ANZ's Freedom Air subsidiary, and registered D-AXLA, with serial number 2500.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/11/27/319474/air-new-zealand-a320-crashes-off-france-during-training-flight.html

I hope we have some survivors, although i'm very doubtful.

[Mike W]

You'll find that all of NZ's 320s are owned by Freedom Air, or what is now known as Zeal 320, also the holder of the Air Operators Certificate. The company was set up in the latter stages of Freedom ops and many may have noticed that at this time, any International Flights using A320 equipment changed their flights numbers to begin with a "7" instead of a "1". e.g. AKL SYD NZ101 became NZ701 but reverts back to NZ101 if B767 or B777 equipment are used.

Bit of trivia for the Buffs.

This particular craft is ZK-OJL and has been on lease to Star XL/XL Airways in Germany, hence the German rego and was due to be returned to Zeal 320. Interesting that Airfleets.net already have the Aircraft listed as wriitten off. They don't muck around.

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a320-2500.htm

Sad about the demise of the frame but especially for any lives that are lost.

[Jason Carruthers]

I hope all the best for the rescue efforts. I couldn't believe it when I saw "NZ A320 Crash" first thing in the morning.

[Mike W]

Well this is definetly not the best year for airbus, loosing two aircraft in pre delivery testing. I suppose NZ will get a replacement aircraft from airbus. I hope all the best for the rescue efforts.

This Aircraft is not new Jason and is in fact already owned by NZ (Zeal). I'm picking, seeing as it was being leased out, that they won't replace it and take the Insurance. The whole 320 experience for NZ, I understand, hasn't been what they thought it would be. Hence the recent aquisition of a few more used 733's for domestic ops.

[David Ramsay]

Media release from NZ

28 November 2008

An Airbus A320 operated by XL Airways of Germany has been lost in the Mediterranean.

That aircraft is one that is owned by Air New Zealand and on lease to XL Airways for the past two years.

The aircraft was being flown by XL Airways to Frankfurt where it was due to be handed back to Air New Zealand for a ferry flight back to New Zealand.

Sadly, we have been notified that four Air New Zealand employees may have been on board the aircraft as passengers on this ferry flight to Frankfurt.

Naturally, this is an extremely difficult time for us all and I can assure that the full resources of the airline are being put into investigating what may have happened and providing support to our people and their families.

Rob Fyfe


Coincidentally it is 29 years ago today that NZ lost a DC-10 on Mt Erebus.

[Mike W]

More from the NZ herald;

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10545449

Five New Zealanders feared dead after Air NZ plane crashes

The A320 had four Air NZ staff and one CAA inspector on board, Chief Executive Officer Rob Fyfe said today. Photos / Reuters file, Greg Bowker

Updated 9:24AM Friday Nov 28, 2008

There are grave concerns for five New Zealanders on board the Air New Zealand Airbus A320 which crashed off the coast of France early this morning.

Air New Zealand Chief Executive Officer Rob Fyfe said one Air New Zealand captain, three Air New Zealand engineers and a CAA inspector were on board, as well as two pilots from German charter company XL.

The Air New Zealand captain was from Auckland and the engineers from Auckland and Christchurch, Mr Fyfe said.

He said one body had been recovered, however French media reported three bodies had been found.

Today's crash comes exactly 29 years after the Mt Erebus disaster, when Air NZ flight TE901 flew into Antarctica's highest mountain killing 257.

"At this stage we don't know the status of personnel. We have grave concerns for the situation," Mr Fyfe said.

"Naturally, this is an extremely difficult time for us all and the full resources of the airline are being put into investigation."

Mr Fyfe said the aircraft wreckage was in water. "A search and rescue operation is currently under way and one body has been retrieved. At this stage the status of the six other people on board is not known." Continues...

[Mike W]

Media release form NZ



Coincidentally it is 29 years ago today that NZ lost a DC-10 on Mt Erebus.


That aircraft was being operated by NZ, unlike this bird it seems

[Nigel C]

It has been confirmed that the cause of the crash was a loss of altitude.

A sad day for aviation for this part of the world.

[David Ramsay]

Press conference (http://www.3news.co.nz/Video/ExtendedVideo/tabid/315/articleID/81900/Default.aspx#video) with NZ CEO, Rob Fyfe.

[Andrew P]

It has been confirmed that the cause of the crash was a loss of altitude.

with all due respect, what does this mean in reality!

Banjo

[Mick F]

It has been confirmed that the cause of the crash was a loss of altitude.

Naturally Nigel, ;). Most aircraft don't crash until they have a loss of altitude, :D.

Mick

[John R]

Ahhh it's so much nicer to get news from a professional less sensationalist organisation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7753270.stm

Doesn't even mention NZ - the facts sir, just the facts....

[David Ramsay]

Second press conference (http://www.3news.co.nz/Video/ExtendedVideo/tabid/315/articleID/81918/cat/87/Default.aspx#video)

There is another one scheduled for 1500 NZDT.

[Torin Wilson]

You'll find that all of NZ's 320s are owned by Freedom Air, or what is now known as Zeal 320, also the holder of the Air Operators Certificate.

Bit of trivia for the Buffs.

This particular craft is ZK-OJL and has been on lease to Star XL/XL Airways in Germany, hence the German rego and was due to be returned to Zeal 320.

Not any more. All A320s are now back on the Air NZ AOC. It was due to go back on the NZ register registered to Air NZ ( or Air New Zealand Ltd Private Bag 92007 Auckland 1142 as it is exactly on the caa website)

[David Ramsay]

Press conference this afternoon (http://www.3news.co.nz/Full-news-conference-with-Rob-Fyfe--3pm/tabid/315/articleID/81982/cat/100/Default.aspx#video)

[Philip Argy]

Under tough circumstances that's an impressive performance from Rob Fyfe.

[Scott Lindsell]

Coincidentally it is 29 years ago today that NZ lost a DC-10 on Mt Erebus.




That is just unbelievable and somewhat earie in it's own right.
Sad day for NZ all around.
:(

[Radi K]

Good info @ http://avherald.com/h?article=410c9cec&opt=0

[phil.l]

Nice find Radi,i have seen a photo that also has ZK-OJL back in ANZ colours,thats if OJL was ever in ANZ colours?

[David Ramsay]

Following was posted on pprune (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/352696-airbus-crash-training-flight-3.html#post4559152), originally in French, then translated into English.

It's from a guy who was listening on a scanner. Bits of it have been quoted by the media worldwide so I see no reason not to post it here.

I was listening on the Perpignan approach and tower frequencies all afternoon, and can assure you that living a crash "live", and living a few km from the location, gives me cold shivers.

The aircraft in question contacted approach about 1645. He was direct PPG descending through FL120. He was taken under radar control because the preceding traffic, a Ryanair, was on the STAR [approach, I presume]. Heading 90, I don't recall the level. Once the preceding traffic was established, the controller (our charming Perpignanaise controller) gave it a direct LANET, cleared LANET ILS 33, descend 4000 feet, qnh 1016. The pilot acknowledged and that was the last time he was heard from. No mayday, nothing. Then the pilot of a PA28 yelled "an aircraft crashed, an aircraft crashed" and everything went very fast. "Ulysse 34, confirm an aircraft crashed? Position?" "We are off Canet en Roussillon on 110 PPG, 10.5nm, Ulysse 34, we are beginning to orbit the crash site, 300 feet above sea level." Very quickly the Securité Civile helicopter took off from Perpignan. "Dragon66, authorized immediate takeoff from position, wind calm, left turn." As soon as the helicopter was on site, he announced "no visual on the aircraft, large white spot on the water, we can see debris over more than one km."

I will spare you the other details. The controllers kept their calm, made all the VFR traffic in the area land. EAS, who was to have met the A320, announced there were 7 people on board. As I write this, I am listening to the various aircraft at the crash site, and so far they are not finding anybody. I hope there will be survivors, but given the cold and the water temperature...
A Dauphin with specialized equipment is awaited in the next few minutes. An SNSM launch is also there.

I hope we'll quickly have explanations. I have a colleague who saw the aircraft 'fall' in the sea. It really dove as it had just begun its DME arc to establish. Really strange....

[Philip Argy]

The suddeness of the plunge and the lack of any distress call is certainly strange. Another eyewitness account put it this way:



"It's not really clear on what happened … the plane was flying for one hour and a half and suddenly fell down to the sea. There was no explosion, it was flying (at) 300m and suddenly fell down into the sea, but no explosion."

[David Ramsay]

it was flying (at) 300m and suddenly fell down into the sea

This is something I find really strange.

The last clearance they received was direct LANET, cleared LANET ILS 33, descend 4000 feet (source: the same as my earlier post).

Looking at the approach plate for the LANET ILS 33, they were on or near the 11DME arc. The plate shows establishing on the ILS at or above 2000ft. (There is a copy of the approach plate on the link that Radi posted.)

Based on those two pieces of information, they should have been nowhere near 1000ft (300m). Were they below the flightpath or did someone just imagine that they saw the a/c at 1000ft?

[Nigel C]

...and the lack of any distress call is certainly strange.

No, not at all. First priority is to aviate (i.e. fly the damn plane), second is navigate (somewhere out of harms way would be nice), and then communicate (tell someone it all went pear-shaped).

If they were at low altitude and there was a catastrophic failure, I doubt they would have had time for anything but dealing with the issues at hand.


Captain to First Officer: "Don't worry about the steep dive we're in from 2000'...we need to tell someone we have a control issue".
This generally ain't gonna happen.

[Mick.B]

There`distress call" will no doubt be on the CVR. Very chilling I think. Very sad indeed.

[Greg McDonald]

Just found this. Very interesting. I believe one of the Aircrash Investigations programs some time ago focused on a badly painted aircraft where this ended up being the case of the crash.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,28318,24732268-5014090,00.html

[Alan Dent]

J was wondering if any more information has come to light on the disaster. We knew one of the engineers on board the plane.

[David Ramsay]

A preliminary report (http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/d-la081127ea/pdf/d-la081127ea.pdf) has been released by the BEA (French accident investigation body).

There has been some discontent expressed here (NZ) that it was released to the media before it was given to either Air NZ or to the families of the deceased.

[Philip Argy]

Preliminary though it may be, this is a disturbing report. It describes a flight that was not approved, in which manoeuvres and tests were performed on an ad hoc basis with no apparent pre-planning, and in which various protective mechanisms were inappropriately disabled.

The impression one gets from the transcript is that the PF thought his role was to be a puppet verbally controlled by the Air NZ representative in the jump seat - a bizarre situation that seems to have lead to the loss of control of the a/c at low altitude while testing alpha floor triggering. Having said that, there are also indications that the elevator was unresponsive or acting uncommanded and the final report will need some detailed technical analysis.

There seems to have been less than 2 minutes of elapsed time from when the a/c was in stable full configuration on a 'normal' ILS approach (but with proposed GA) to when it hit the sea at more than 14 degrees nose down pitch at around 208 kts. It's hard to see why it was being operated under direct law or alternate law at that late stage of the flight but it seems to have been the case, which could explain some of the a/c's unexpected behaviour.

All in all, the preliminary report raises many questions that may take some time to answer, if indeed they can ever be answered. Certainly there will have to be serious regulatory improvements to deal with acceptance flights of this kind and it is surprising that there haven't been many prior disasters given what the report reveals.

You have to feel for the relatives of those who perished in circumstances which should never have existed.