United 777

[Kieran Wells]

Rumor has it United will change the 744 that operates SFO-SYD to a 777. No date at the moment. Obviously being done either for the global downturn and the increased competition on USA - AUS routes.

[Sarah C]

I think that rumour has merit as United are advertising a position for an engineer who is qualified for both 747 and 777. Interesting if it is true - surely the loads would enough to keep a 747?

[lloyd fox]

Yes i will get all the details when i get home but aircraft then continues onto MEL.

Cheers Lloyd

[Steve Jones]

Am I right in thinking the 777s have personal IFE in Y class? That would be enough for me to go to the 777 service over the 744 on a 14 hour flight to the US!

[Sam Chui]

Am not sure the PW engined 777 can do the westbound SFO-SYD. But given the current economic conditions, most airline are trimming their 747 operation and replacing with something less costly. (e.g. JAL 747 to 777, 1 BA 747 to 777 etc) it is harder and harder to fly on a 747 now (apart from Qantas)

Steve, yes the 777 have 9 channels PTV, but it is not AVOD , just a loop program run on tapes. Their fleet of 52 777 haven't even been fitted with new F/C (due completion 2010) although half of the 744 fleet is fitted now with new F/C seats and running on SYD-SFO routes regularly.

[Marty H]

I think that rumour has merit as United are advertising a position for an engineer who is qualified for both 747 and 777. Interesting if it is true - surely the loads would enough to keep a 747?

Sarah B747's are becoming less viable to operate, airlines are either converting them to freighters or parking them.

[NickN]

On a well configured 777 what is the difference in pax numbers in all classes compared to a 747?

[lloyd fox]

Sam howdy, i am not sure either but time will tell.However this is the planned operation.

UA863 eff tue 31mar arr 0725 from SFO out at 0905 to MEL.Flight no change in SYD
UA840 EFFtue 31mar arr 1345 from MEL out at 1530 to SFO-flight no change in SYD

From 5 apr all flights change by 1 hour.

[Marty H]

On a well configured 777 what is the difference in pax numbers in all classes compared to a 747?


Maybe 30-40 seats which if they arent filling on a B744 arent going to be missed anyway, the B747 will be confined to a freight dog's B77W B77LR and A380's will rule the international skies.

[NickN]

For the sacrifice of 30-40 seats the 777 is a no brainer!

[Owen H]

United International 777 Configuration is 12,49,197 giving a total of 258

United International 744 Configuration is 14,73,260 giving a total of 347.

Thats 89 seats, with 24 of them being business class seats.

Comparing the 777-300ER, then you do get closer to 40.

6,57,238 is CX's 777-300ER,
14,64,265 is one of QF's 744 configs.

The 777 is a good aeroplane, but it is a lot newer than the 747! If you give the 747 an update like the 777 got with the 300ER, then it will be the superior aircraft... whether or not that will happen, we'll see. I still know which aircraft I'd rather be flying across the pacific or southern/indian oceans in!

I can't see the A380 dominating the skies for a long time, but the time may come. I'd hate to think how much the aircraft has cost when you think of the infrastructure that is being put in to support it.

[Michael Morrison]

For the sacrifice of 30-40 seats the 777 is a no brainer!

Hmmm but what about the payload restricitons on this route?

i've read elsewhere V Aus looked at the 777-200er but it wasn't viable for SYD-LAX. Ie couldnt carry enough to make it worth while.

[D Chan]

If you give the 747 an update like the 777 got with the 300ER, then it will be the superior aircraft... whether or not that will happen, we'll see

happening as we speak, 747-8..

UA does have some 777-200ERs? do they not? I know for a fact they have the -200 'A' variants. Last year UA chartered a 777 over here - that flew via HNL if I recall correctly - so SFO-SYD is pushing the range a bit

[Sarah C]

UA does have some 777-200ERs? do they not?

Yep - most of them are ER's. I think about 32 or so of thier 777's are ER's, the rest (I think about 20) are just the original variant.

[Grahame Hutchison]

According to PlaneSpotters they have 19 B777-222 and 33 B777-222(ER)

[Mike Scott]

The only aircraft change that is currently under review is the LAX/Sydney trip. The 400 trip out of SFO will remain in place.

Regards

MS

[Sarah C]

According to PlaneSpotters they have 19 B777-222 and 33 B777-222(ER)

Thanks Grahame - I was close!;)

[Bernie P]

Thanks Grahame - I was close!;)

Ahhh yes... Close, but NO cigar!!! :D

[Michael Morrison]

The only aircraft change that is currently under review is the LAX/Sydney trip. The 400 trip out of SFO will remain in place.

Regards

MS

Interesting - a few other sites have said that the 777 pilots can bid on SYD-SFO already

[Steve Jones]

The decision re 777s has been reversed. Back to 744 operation.

[Mike Scott]

I just got my bid package for March. SFO and LAX are still in place (not that I can hold them) I called scheduling and their response was that decisions are still being made and that we will be kept updated via "flightline". In the notes section at the end of the bid sheet was the following:

Summer 2009 International Schedule

The summer international schedule has undergone change since last month. We had built some flexibility into our widebody staffing plan, so the changes listed below do not have an impact on the recent surplusing that was done on the 747 and 777 fleets.

SFO-SYD and the SYD-MEL tag will be flown by the 777, and in return SFO-PEK will be flown by the 747.
ORD-MUC will be flown by the 777, and in return IAD-AMS is being downgauged to the 767.
The winter international schedule also has a couple of changes for March. In early March, IAD-FCO will be upgauged to a 777 and IAD-GIG will be discontinued for the season (767 fleet). Both of those changes were previously scheduled to occur on March 30. Also, the GRU-GIG tag will be re-instated early and will be flown by the 777 fleet both in March and for the summer season.

Not sure about any reversal but here is a piece from our latest employee newsletter.

With the introduction of our International Premium Travel Experience on all flights to Australia -- from Los Angeles (LAX) and San Francisco (SFO) -- our first and business class customers traveling "Down Under" may now enjoy a more comfortable and relaxing flight on our B747.
The new, international lie-flat first and business class seats provide customers with the optimal space to work, sleep or relax while traveling between the U.S. and Australia.

"The multi-million dollar investments we are making in our international aircraft provide our customers with a more comfortable and relaxing way to fly," says Dennis Cary, SVP and chief customer officer. "Australia is a pivotal part of United's network, and we look forward to building on our 23 years of serving this market with competitive fares, an unmatched frequent flier program and a new level of both first and business class service."

The U.S. and Australia route will be increasingly competitive, as Virgin Group start-up V Australia this month joins Virgin Blue and Qantas in offering service to Australia. V Australia begins daily flights between Sydney and Los Angeles on February 28, three months later than originally planned because of aircraft delays. It will begin three flights a week between Brisbane and LAX on April 8. In July, Delta also is expected to enter the market.

Through our hubs in SFO and LAX, we offer Australia customers more destinations across the U.S. than any other airline. United and United Express has 185 daily departures to 57 destinations; that's 67 more departures to 25 more destinations than American, the next-largest carrier at LAX. Delta offers flights to fewer than half as many nonstop destinations as we serve.

From Sydney, our codeshare agreements with Virgin Blue and Air New Zealand enable our customers to connect to 11 cities in Australia and New Zealand; from Melbourne, customers can connect to four cities.

Regards
MS

[D Chan]

Through our hubs in SFO and LAX, we offer Australia customers more destinations across the U.S. than any other airline. United and United Express has 185 daily departures to 57 destinations; that's 67 more departures to 25 more destinations than American, the next-largest carrier at LAX. Delta offers flights to fewer than half as many nonstop destinations as we serve

which is a good point as connections matters.

From Sydney, our codeshare agreements with Virgin Blue and Air New Zealand enable our customers to connect to 11 cities in Australia and New Zealand; from Melbourne, customers can connect to four cities.

Wonder if the arrangement with DJ will stay with introduction of VA.

[Michael Morrison]

which is a good point as connections matters.



Wonder if the arrangement with DJ will stay with introduction of VA.

I think it will remain. If you do a dummy booking on united.com you will see Virgin Blue's Velocity as a FF partner... something in the works perhaps\


And before anyone says they already have a codeshare - yes I know that - but this appears to be an arrangement that allows DJ members to earn on UA flights...

[Mike Scott]

Following up (for those who care) on the previous items in the thread. I can now confirm that the 400 will be remaining on the SFO/Syd and LAX/Syd route for the foreseeable future. Not saying that things cant change of course longer term but any current plans/discussion for the change of aircraft have been abandoned. :)

Regards

MS