Continental Connection/Colgan Q400 crashes in Buffalo, NY

[Seth Jaworski]

Continental Connection/Colgan Q400 crashes in Buffalo, NY

Colgan Air Dash 8Q-400 N200WQ has reportedly crashed while attempting to land at the Buffalo/Niagara International Airport (BUF). Local news reports that the aircraft, inbound from Newark as Continental Connection flight 3407 with 50 passengers aboard, crashed into homes short of the runway while attempting to land. We will have more information on this breaking story as it develops.

[Montague S]

just reported on CNN breaking news, certainly has gone down into a house or houses.

[Seth Jaworski]

http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/possible_small_plane_crash_in_clarence_090212

[David Ramsay]

Crash site is 6050 Long St, Clarence Center, which is about 6DME KBUF on approach for runway 23.

[Matt_L]

Currently being reported on CNN,

44 passengers + 4 crew have perished with at least 2 persons who were on the ground currently in hospital.

Plane is still on fire at the moment, the air traffic control tapes are on Airliners.net , live atc however i do not wish to post them here.

They are just harrowing- from one minute to the next the plane seemingly vanishes.

The plane was N200WQ , a DHC8-Q400 flying for Continental Airlines since April 2008. The flight as reported was CO3407- callsign Colgan.

Terrible news

[NickN]

Just heard on the news the a/c was on autopilot and supposedly headed away from the airport and the time of the crash?

[Matt_L]

Just heard on the news the a/c was on autopilot and supposedly headed away from the airport and the time of the crash?

Yes it was on Autopilot according to NTSB conference.

Id like to clarify some things because it seems alot is being misreported by the media and then funneled to the general public which Steve Chealander (NTSB spokesman) says is hurting the families of victims so intensly- the misreporting/insensitive reporting.

As for turning away from airport at time of crash- I think the north easterly heading just around the time of crash was a possible result of stall/pitch roll but obviously this will be determined.



I heard on Fox News today after the NTSB media conference the host say something to the extent "the decision to leave on autopilot by crew mustve played a contributing factor to the crash" and I thought this was very insensitive reporting as facts are not known yet and see below.

Heres an excerpt from avherald.com which furthers what I mean above.

The NTSB recommends to fly manually in icing conditions to get a better feel of the airplane, however, the FAA takes a different attitude due to workload issues. No regulation exists therefore requiring pilots to fly manually in icing conditions.

The Dash 8-400 flight crew operating manual released by Bombardier, owner of de Havilland, requires flight crews to disengage the autopilot in severe icing conditions.

The use of the autopilot was therefore appropriate - other than what almost all media reported today.

The crew had not only activated the de-icing system, but had also activated their reference speed increase switch, a feature of the Dash 8, which increases all reference speeds by 20 knots to protect against stall in icing conditions.

[Hugh Jarse]

The issue of "severe icing" conditions is as subjective as "severe turbulence" (although there is a list of criteria in Jepps) and light/moderate/severe windshear.

The fact is that no 2 crews would probably come to the same conclusion on the intensity of icing in any given place or time.

Yes, one of the limitations with the Dash autopilot is that it should be disengaged in severe icing. Perhaps the crew didn't believe they were in severe icing.

Perhaps they weren't.

[Matt_L]

Hugh,

FWIW- the forecasts obtained at Newark indicated light to moderated icing, and although severe icing could have been encountered it was not reported as that by the preceding planes to Colgan 3407 as well as the aircraft behind it including a delta md88.

[Greg McDonald]

From NEWS.COM.AU:

The captain of a US commuter plane that crashed in February near the northern city of Buffalo had flunked numerous flight tests during his career and was never adequately taught how to respond to an emergency, The Wall Street Journal says.

Citing unnamed people close to the investigation of the crash, the newspaper said Captain Marvin Renslow apparently did not know how to respond to a warning system designed to prevent the plane from stalling.

As the speed dropped to a dangerous level, setting off the stall-prevention system, he did the opposite of the proper procedure, which led to the crash, the report said.

The crash of the Bombardier Q400 operated by commuter carrier Colgan Air outside Buffalo, New York, killed all 49 people aboard and one on the ground.

The Journal said the 47-year-old Renslow, who joined Colgan Air in September 2005, had a history of flunking periodic tests of competency.

Moreover, his 24-year-old co-pilot, Rebecca Shaw, had complained before take-off about being congested and said she probably should have called in sick, the newspaper said, citing people who have listened to the cockpit voice recording.

Investigators surmise the pilots didn't fully understand the operation of one ice-protection system, and therefore incorrectly programmed approach speeds into a flight computer, according to The Journal.

As the plane made its approach toward Buffalo with the autopilot engaged, the crew exchanged idle banter, which is prohibited by federal rules on flights flying below 10,000 feet, the report said

If this proves to be true, it's very scary....

[Hugh Jarse]

It never ceases to amaze me that the media are so quick to lay the blame at the feet of the pilot, when quite clearly the airline was at fault for not providing adequate training and/or not taking the "apparent" deficient pilot off line until such time as he was proficient, had he failed a check.

This is typical of the media today. They must find somebody to blame, rather than find out the real facts.

It makes me want to puke...:(

[D Chan]

your 'bold' should be on the *somebody* instead of the must. The easiest target are the crew who didn't survive - they can't defend themselves

[Greg McDonald]

More:

Just seconds before the worst US air crash in more than seven years, the pilot exclaimed "Jesus Christ" and moments later his co-pilot screamed as Flight 3407 plunged to the ground.

A cockpit voice recorder transcript released on Tuesday by the National Transportation Safety Board shows that only minutes before the February 12 crash on approach to Buffalo Niagara International Airport in upstate New York Captain Marvin Renslow and First Officer Rebecca Shaw chatted about her career and shared their fear of flying in icy weather.

Moments later the Dash 8-Q400 Bombardier, a twin-engine turboprop, experienced an aerodynamic stall and plunged into a house, killing all 49 people aboard and one man on the ground.

The transcript was released as the safety board opened a three-day public hearing on Tuesday into the accident. The board was expected to focus heavily on pilot training and fatigue.

As the Dash-8 approached Buffalo on a wintry night, Shaw and Renslow remarked to each other - less than seven minutes before the crash - about how much ice had formed on their wings.

"It's lots of ice," Shaw said.

"Oh yeah that's the most I've seen, most ice I've seen on the leading edges in a long time, in a while anyway I should say," Renslow replied.

Renslow then remarked that he'd flown about 625 hours in the region before he was hired for this job by Colgan Air.

Shaw replied, "I really wouldn't mind going through a winter in the Northeast before I have to upgrade to captain. ... I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any. I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that and make those kinds of calls. You know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like seen this much ice and thought, 'Oh my gosh, we were going to crash.' "

"I would've been fine," Renslow replied. "I would have survived it. There wasn't, we never had to make decisions that I wouldn't have been able to make but ... now I'm more comfortable."

The crew then lowers the landing gear and adjusts the flaps, but at 10:16.26 pm there's a sound similar to movement of the flap handle and Shaw says, "Uhhh".

Less than a second later, there are sounds similar to the stick shaker - a warning transmitted through the control stick that the aircraft is nearing a stall. These last for 6.7 seconds. Less than a second later, a horn sounds signalling the autopilot disconnecting and that horn continues until the end of the recording.

At 10:16.34.8, Renslow says, "Jesus Christ."

Shaw says she put the flaps up and asked if she should put the landing gear up. Renslow replies: "Gear up, oh (expletive)."

As noise in the cockpit increases, Renslow adds: "We're down."

There's a thump.

Shaw: "We (sound of scream)."

And the transcript ends.

The board also released documents showing that safety investigators were told by one training instructor that Renslow "was slow learning" the Dash 8 but his abilities "picked up at the end." The training instructor said Renslow struggled to learn the Dash 8's flight management system, a critical computer.

[NickN]

Pretty harrowing stuff......

Sounds like the pilots were a little complacent and not fully aware of the danger they were in. Not saying that was their fault, as other have mentioned insufficient training may be an issue.