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View Full Version : The Age Article "Jetstart Flies into storm over curfew"


Adrian B
17th April 2009, 08:43 AM
Source The age (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/jetstar-flies-into-storm-over-curfew-20090415-a7kf.html)

JETSTAR faces a fine of up to $550,000 after becoming the first Australian airline prosecuted for breaching the Sydney Airport curfew.

The Department of Infrastructure has accused the airline of taking off almost half an hour after the curfew, even though it had applied for dispensation and been refused, and despite two warnings from air traffic controllers that it was risking a fine if it went ahead with the flight.

The airline has pleaded guilty to knowingly allowing an Airbus A330-202 to take off during the curfew period without permission at 11.28pm on December 3, 2007.

The aircraft was heading to to Denpasar, Indonesia. It was warned at 11.08pm and again at 11.26pm that penalties would apply if the plane departed, according to the Crown submissions on sentence, which have been tendered to Downing Local Court.

"Notwithstanding that, the pilot twice instructed the controller at Sydney tower that it was the intention of the Jetstar flight to depart," the submissions say. "The Crown submits that the offender's conduct was the result of a deliberate choice for a corporate identity to engage in criminal conduct and flagrantly disobey the curfew period. The Crown submits this deliberate breach, on 'company instructions', elevates the objective seriousness of the offence."

It is the fourth time an airline has been prosecuted under the Sydney Airport Airport Act and the third since stricter penalties were introduced in 2000, increasing the fine from $110,000 to $550,000.

Thai Airlines was fined $10,000 in 1999 and Lauda Air fined the same amount in 2000. Gulf Air was fined $7500 and $160,000 for two offences in 2005.

Jetstar has not yet tendered its submissions on sentence, but it has argued in evidence that there was minimal if any noise as a result of the late take-off because it was a new aircraft and it departed over water, and there were no complaints from residents.

The president of the air traffic controllers union, Robert Mason, said yesterday the controller involved would have had no choice but to give the pilot clearance.

"Controllers used to be the ultimate arbiters for when a plane could take off, but they changed the law more than 15 years ago and now it is down to the airline," he said.

"The controller can refuse clearance for safety reasons. But in this case, if they decide to go, then there's nothing you can do."

NickN
17th April 2009, 08:56 AM
I have always supported the view that if the departure is off 16R over the water then after-curfew departures/arrivals should be allowed.

Owen H
17th April 2009, 10:41 AM
The point, however, is that they are not, and all airlines know it.

Nigel C
17th April 2009, 10:45 AM
I'm not arguing for or against the curfew, however a 16R departure over water would require a left turn of about 125, which would then impact on the people of Kurnell and La Perouse.

Andrew McLaughlin
17th April 2009, 01:08 PM
"Far Kurnell!" a resident living on the southern shores of Botany Bay was heard to say as he lifted the handset to call the noise complaints hotline...

Mike S
17th April 2009, 01:15 PM
Heaven forbid people that live near the Airport actually get Aircraft noise!!

Bit like living next door to an EXISTING rubbish tip and trying to get it shutdown for the stink that eminates from it at night.

Has anyone bothered to meter these "new" aircraft, and put forward a new case for certain Aircraft to be exempt from the curfew?

NickN
17th April 2009, 07:22 PM
The A330 still is a noisy aircraft in comparison to the A380. The Emirates A380 took off right in front of me on 16R while I was at the mound the other day and I didn't even realize it had left it was so quiet! I had my head buried in the paper but a roaring jet is hard to miss most times.

James K
17th April 2009, 10:38 PM
Not to worry. They'll just send the bill to big brother like usual. :rolleyes:

Bill S
17th April 2009, 11:33 PM
I'm not arguing for or against the curfew, however a 16R departure over water would require a left turn of about 125, which would then impact on the people of Kurnell and La Perouse.

Just do what they used to do a few years ago, have the planes go out through the heads over water all the way. Pretty much zero noise complaints that way.

But, as I always say, buy a house near the airport and I have ZERO sympathy. In any case Sydney Airport was there long before anyone that lives near it now, so tough ****ies.

Mike W
18th April 2009, 06:40 AM
"Far Kurnell!" a resident living on the southern shores of Botany Bay was heard to say as he lifted the handset to call the noise complaints hotline...

:D

Jack B
18th April 2009, 09:38 AM
Just do what they used to do a few years ago, have the planes go out through the heads over water all the way. Pretty much zero noise complaints that way.

But, as I always say, buy a house near the airport and I have ZERO sympathy. In any case Sydney Airport was there long before anyone that lives near it now, so tough ****ies.

reminds me of the Meadowood residents in the book "Airport". Same situation really!

Mike S
18th April 2009, 10:43 AM
Last weekend i stayed a couple of nights at the Novotel at Brighton. Had real nice clear views of the Runways and Taxiways. That pleased me alot but the misses wanted more views of the bay! Hahaha!

Anyways, most of the actual noise that was made was actually due to reverse thrust. Alot of "Vibration" emits from the Reverse Thrust which actually is quite loud. The taking off, was nothing compared to this noise. Me living over in Cronulla, i cant really head this noise, so its confined to the immediate area around the airport.

Once again, you cant move to the airport and expect it to be quiet.

Owen H
18th April 2009, 08:36 PM
That is very true, and I strongly hold the view that if you live near an airport you need to accept the noise, however, people moved in knowing that there is a regulation that prohibits certain takeoffs after 11pm. Many people there are happy to accept the noise during most hours, but they are fully aware there is a curfew.

It isn't fair for them to have the rules changed without compensation... it is like building a house and THEN having an airport built next door... when you moved in there was no reason to think there would be noise during those hours.

That said, I do think that a lot of the other "noise sharing" procedures are complete rubbish.

Radi K
19th April 2009, 11:55 PM
Why would the captain, knowing better than anyone the implications of taking off after curfew knowingly depart? Unless ops confirmed with him before departure a dispensation had been received it's simply really poor airmanship on his behalf to knowingly depart under these conditions. Is there CASA penalties for the PIC for such an offence?

Nigel C
20th April 2009, 01:17 AM
Or perhaps ops knew they didn't have dispensation but the company gave permission to get the aircraft under way as it would have been a bigger penalty (financial and schedule wise) to not have the aircraft depart?

To suggest it was poor airmanship to depart without a dispensation is, I feel, somewhat short-sighted to the number of factors that would come into play for making such a decision.

NickN
20th April 2009, 08:57 AM
The Crown submits this deliberate breach, on 'company instructions'

Sounds to me as if the pilot was told to depart by the powers that be. I doubt the decision was wholly and solely his alone.

Jon Harris
20th April 2009, 11:05 AM
I would have to agree with Nick...I'm pretty sure the Captain would have received direct instructions from high up in JQ - this would not have been a decision done at his sole discretion.

Bill S
20th April 2009, 04:22 PM
Sounds to me as if the pilot was told to depart by the powers that be. I doubt the decision was wholly and solely his alone.

I'd agree - There's no way I'd even think of departing without approval from higher-up. I came close to doing it when I was with AAI flying for Malaysian Cargo, but I made very sure that before we pushed back we would recieve no penalty for departing. I think we pushed-back just before 10:45pm local and got airborne off 16R before 11pm so it was all okay ..... but I was just covering my ****. ;)

With the main company base being at the airport itself, I'd make very sure to get permission in writing from the Ops Manager first though.

Greg W.
6th May 2009, 08:00 PM
Is there CASA penalties for the PIC for such an offence?

If the PIC disobeyed an ATC instruction, he has committed a criminal offence: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/car1988263/s100.html
Maximum fine is $5500.

However, the article indicates that the PIC had been given clearance by ATC. Thus, no offence has been committed.

Mick F
6th May 2009, 08:25 PM
As has been said in the other thread, and also many times before, ATC do not police the curfew. They simply advise the pilots that a curfew is in operation, and penalties do apply.

Other than that, they must provide a normal ATC service. So a pilot taking off after curfew becomes effective, is not disobeying an ATC direction at all.

Mick