V Australia cans Melbourne - LAX

[Montague S]

our friends from the new start-up carrier have decided the MEL-LAX route won't be taking place this September.

its not made news just yet but it will soon.

[Brad Myer]

Resulting in some job losses in MEL as well I believe

[Marty H]

There was never any V Australia base in Melbourne, SYD-JNB makes more sense especially with the Soccerwho's going to the Soccer World Cup to get spanked.

[Montague S]

some other news regarding V, it now seems they're scaling back some SYD-LAX flights by re-routing passengers via BNE.

http://business.theage.com.au/business/v-australia-scales-back-some-sydneyla-flights-20090602-budx.html

[Rhys Xanthis]

eep.

time to find new routes, quick...

[Montague S]

the job losses come from Toll DNATA who were to be the handling agent.

right now it's safe to say the Socceroos are doing better than V Australia.

[Rhys Xanthis]

right now it's safe to say the Socceroos are doing better than V Australia.

hahaha...

Swine Flu would not be helping their case!

What is it? Just really poor forward bookings as a result of the economic crisis?

QF have the pockets to go in to a price war, they don't want to do that...new routes is the only thing.

JNB, NRT...they have a problem competing with JQ on most int'l routes within their range really...HNL would be a great destination for VA (all the beaches fit in with their light view on everything:p)...but JQ are already there, they have lots of Japan covered...Hong Kong wouldn't be an option (lots of capacity on this route already really...from most aussie cities)...

Racking my brains and I can't think of anywhere they can go to make a real winner...

[Chris W]

I believe SYD flights will connect onward to MEL. (ie operating MEL-SYD-LAX).

[Michael Morrison]

Please refrain from quoting the whole post above, it's not necessary - thank you - mod

Incorrect. They have just got rid of their ground handler in MEL so there will be no MEL-SYD-LAX flights....

As for the cutbacks it makes sens IMHO. Given the SYD loads are about 60% why start another route from MEL when you will then have low loads ex MEL and take away 60 or so connecting pax from the SYD flight making it even lower loading. Expand when the economy picks up.

As for opther destinations SYD-PER-JNB would be nice to see - their traffic rights for SA expire in OCT so they need to use it or lose it.

[Andrew M]

Poor old V can't really do anything right with this launch, and most of it was/is out of their control.

1. Boeing Strike - Delayed Planes
Results in delayed launch & moving customers to other airlines - Frustrates customers

2. Economy Crisis - People just are not travelling

3. Delta's flights

4. Swine Flu - Small impact no doubt

5. Moving customers to/from BNE flights, stuff them around once they will not come back

End result is the canning of the MEL-LAX flights and poor loads on the SYD-LAX flights.

[Gareth Forwood]

Slightly OT, can the 77W fly direct SYD-JNB, or do the ETOPS regulations make it impossible.

[Mick B]

Last I heard they can't...depending how far south you go, you can be up to 4-5hrs from another airport. What sort of ETOPS rules are VA operating the 773 to? Is it 207 mins now?

The only way to get round that would be to fly further north, where you encounter some pretty serious headwinds, with the end result being tight on fuel. Depressurisation planning issues might also come into play.

PER-JNB would make sense, heaps of South Africans there (and we all know how much they like to save a buck!) and offers an alternative to SAA.

[Jim Liu]

VA is still selling MEL - LAX nonstop tickets...for now

[Ash W]

Poor old V can't really do anything right with this launch, and most of it was/is out of their control.

1. Boeing Strike - Delayed Planes
Results in delayed launch & moving customers to other airlines - Frustrates customers

2. Economy Crisis - People just are not travelling

3. Delta's flights

4. Swine Flu - Small impact no doubt

5. Moving customers to/from BNE flights, stuff them around once they will not come back

End result is the canning of the MEL-LAX flights and poor loads on the SYD-LAX flights.

Yeah most of it is out of their control, but sadly this is the risk you take when trying to squeeze into new markets and indeed markets that are already well served by incumbant operators.

[gavin m-cox]

well, if v australia was smart...try SYD-CEBU..i fly there 5 times a year,,,,sometimes it takes me 24 hours to get there..:mad:..syd-hkg-mnl-ceb....qf and pal..allways book out.well most of the time.......

[Greg McDonald]

Yeah most of it is out of their control, but sadly this is the risk you take when trying to squeeze into new markets and indeed markets that are already well served by incumbant operators.

Even if the incumbent operators are ripping you off blind...which is why they took the risk:)

[Ash W]

Greg not sure what you mean? Even if Qantas and United are "ripping" us off it doesn't mean that V-Aus coming into the market would be succesful.

PS on the note of ripping us off, yes the prices are high, but in todays business world the value of something is the price the market will pay. So yes on a per KM basis compared to other segments Aus-US flights are high, but using a business sense it could be argued the the price is fair.

[Andre H]

Why they have enough ETOPS Range for the transpacific flights as a new Airline with no experience ?


Greetings from Berlin

[Gareth Forwood]

Hi Andre. Forgive me if I've misinterpreted your post - As far as I'm aware, ETOPS is based on the aircraft, not the airline. Based on a 207 min ETOPS, the 77W can easily make it to LAX without any route alteration.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=yssy-klax&PATH-COLOR=red&ETOPS=207

The dark areas indicate regions outside the 207 min limit. This is from the Great Circle Mapper (http://gc.kls2.com/). As always, if I'm wrong, I'm most happy to be corrected.

[Nathan Long]

...ETOPS is based on the aircraft, not the airline. ...

It's both.

[Andrew M]

Greg not sure what you mean? Even if Qantas and United are "ripping" us off it doesn't mean that V-Aus coming into the market would be succesful.



I am sure Greg means that entering an expensive route would mean greater chance of success as you are the new entrant with a lower price.

Better than entering an already cheap route with lots of competition, sadly V Aust had other factors which have screwed them over.

[Ash W]

See I would have thought the inverse would be true. Entering a route with stong incumbants, regardless of price will always be a struggle. The fact the market is willing to pays "so much" is an indication it isn't an overly price sensitive route. Which gets back to the point I was making that it is the market that drives the price of the ticket not 'greedy' airlines per se.

For mine I reckon V-Aus would have been better off going for new markets rather than trying to muscle in on the LA route. I am sure there are many places in the US they could have tried.

[Andrew McLaughlin]

For mine I reckon V-Aus would have been better off going for new markets rather than trying to muscle in on the LA route. I am sure there are many places in the US they could have tried.

Do you want Brett Godfrey's and Richard Branson's email addresses? :rolleyes:

[Ash W]

No really. This is a discussion board where I thought we could air our own personal views on matters. I am sure Godfrey and co are not stuipid and made their decision on solid ground, it has just proved to have not worked in the current enviroment.

My comments were more directed at those who just assumed automaticly that an airline entering a market offering lower prices would romp it in.

[Andrew M]

Ash W - So where in the USA should V have flown to instead.

QF and UA only see LAX and SFO as being worthwhile and they have experience in the area where V has none!

Generally an airline will "romp it in" with lower prices on a high-priced route, but everything combined has burnt V in the behind. On the other hand I see your point about a price sensitive route, but if you want to the to the USA in the past people had to pay $2000+ now they can pay $1000 :D

[Ash W]

What I was getting at is it was suicide to take on, as a first route LAX, owing to the established presence there already. Virgin Blue in particular has a history of making a go at routes that are not well served and I would have thought that would have been their first attempt at the US market rather than LAX.

[Jarden S]

I had hoped they try somewhere new in the US like Dallas thats a major city 4 million+. For a start 3 SYD-DFW 773 flights a week would be good. Also why don't they try new markets like Brazil 3 a week to RIO from SYD. The plane has the range to do it non stop. Thats my 2 cents worth..

[Andrew M]

Ash W

So again where should have they have flown to instead of LAX ?

If QF/UA/DL don't see a need to fly anywhere else except LAX/SFO then I doubt V Australia could make a case of it.

[Andrew McLaughlin]

I had hoped they try somewhere new in the US like Dallas thats a major city 4 million+. For a start 3 SYD-DFW 773 flights a week would be good. Also why don't they try new markets like Brazil 3 a week to RIO from SYD. The plane has the range to do it non stop.

I doubt a 77W could do SYD-DFW let alone DFW-SYD with a full load for a start. And being a twin there's no way it could do SYD-RIO non-stop without infringing on its ETOPS limits.

What I was getting at is it was suicide to take on, as a first route LAX, owing to the established presence there already.

WTF??? :eek::eek::eek:

Guys, at the end of the day load factors on the Pacific until the 4th quarter of last year were frequently above 90% across QF, UA and NZ - THAT'S what kept the fares high - supply and demand, so there was and will be again room on the route for a daily V Australia flight, not to mention Delta as well which starts up in a few weeks. On face value, it made perfect sense.

There's no doubt the airline has been hurt by an almost 'perfect storm' combination of factors, most of which have been beyond its control, but that doesn't make the original business plan a bad one. There was room for a carrier at the bottom and middle end of the market which would have also generated new business, and there likely will be again.

And NONE of us here are qualified to judge or even comment on whether VA should have started up somewhere or sometime else, nor should we be commenting on hearsay which may or may not have any basis of fact. If you are qualified to do so, go and write for a magazine, or work for CAPA or for Richard Aboulafia or something....geesh! :rolleyes:

[Andrew M]

Agree with what you are saying about supply/demand on the Aussie-LAX route, hence my postings above.

Not sure if you are serious about not being allowed to comment, this is a discussion forum afterall... :eek:

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Not sure if you are serious about not being allowed to comment, this is a discussion forum afterall... :eek:

Didn't say "not allowed", I said "not qualified."

[Andrew M]

Same same... No qualifications needed to post here! :D

[Moderator]

Moving along now. Thank you.

[Michael Morrison]

there loads seem to be around 60%+ most days and they are building a reasonably loyal following.

Most pax who have flown on them appear to have had a good experience.

Given they are only 3 and half months into flying I thinkw e are all writing them off a bit quickly. Sure expanding to MEL and BNE is probably not the smartest idea..... build up SYD-LAX first.... it appears management may have realised this and are looking at sending capacity elsewhere... you wouldnt want them not to..

[Mike W]

^ Well said Michael. If they have the same demeanor on the International Flights they have domestically, I'm positive the pax will love it and they'll increase patronage over time.

[Jon B]

Todays (14/6) Sunday Age had a VA advert showing a map with flights direct to LAX from MEL, SYD and BNE.

[Andrew M]

So are the MEL-LAX flights cancelled then ?

OR

The press adverts were worked out months ago and it was too hard/late to change them

[Jon B]

Don't know - but thought it was interesting to see the advert after reading this thread earlier in the week. VA would do well to keep expanding from Mel and Bne as alot of people would love to not have to fly on QF. ie if Emirates and SQ etc can run multiple flights that connect into European ports each day from BNE or MEL but QF has only 1 a day direct then it does tend to prove that such routes are (or maybe were given economic conditions) viable. So i would like to see VA expand from many ports in Aus. Not the least reason being more places to use my Velocity points to.

[Hakan I]

Hey There,

Have spoken with VA staff, they state that initially the direct MEL flights were not going to go ahead but they have since decided to go ahead with it, see what happens i guess, I am about to book with them in November, it is excellent to avoid the 'pleasure' of flying QF!

Hakan

[Jon B]

My Mel - Syd flight this morning DJ817 was also showing on the screens in Melbourne as VA1 to LAX.

[Chris Thurtell]

So has anyone actually got confirmation of this?

As far as I'm aware, they are still being sold in the travel systems as MEL > LAX direct for the end of this year.

[Hakan I]

Just booked MEL - LAX v.v for $930 bucks, what a bargain, and i am not phased if they reroute me, gives me a chance for another cigarette!

Hakan

[Andrew M]

Yes "worst" case is you go via SYD

Few extra hours at the same cost :)

[Michael Mak]

Also an extra take off and landing :D

[Jamie D]

i flew in on VA2 this morning, will post a trip report in the next few days, needless to say awesome trip, shame if they dont offer direct to melb however to virgins credit their transit through sydney both ways was very very easy

[Will H]

Have spoken with VA staff, they state that initially the direct MEL flights were not going to go ahead but they have since decided to go ahead with it

From The Age on Tuesday:
But it has committed to beginning thrice-weekly services between Melbourne and Los Angeles in September, shortly after it takes delivery of its fourth Boeing 777.
http://business.smh.com.au/business/qantas-takes-the-fight-to-delta-20090615-caqk.html

Is that an actual update (fact checked) from Virgin?

[Daniel M]

MEL-LAX flights definately not going ahead in the short term

[Hakan I]

MEL-LAX flights definately not going ahead in the short term

When will an official announcement take place? Do we know when they plan to start the route?

Hakan

[Robert S]

some other news regarding V, it now seems they're scaling back some SYD-LAX flights by re-routing passengers via BNE.

http://business.theage.com.au/business/v-australia-scales-back-some-sydneyla-flights-20090602-budx.html

Did this ever get verified?

there loads seem to be around 60%+ most days and they are building a reasonably loyal following.

Most pax who have flown on them appear to have had a good experience.

I flew over to LAX in mid-April and returned in mid-May... awesome experience both ways. The food was great, the IFE is world class (and as much as I am a KrisFlyer fan, the sheer responsiveness and ease of use of V Australia's system is so refreshing), the seats are comfortable but most importantly the crew are impeccably friendly and attentive. The huge thing you notice is that the crew who are on duty during the night do not hide away in the galleys and maintain a positive attitude without exception... it's the attitude of people who love their jobs. You can't go for a wander around the cabin at any time without at least one crew member at least saying hello, but more likely than not will casually ask how you're going. If there was anything on your mind that you needed, you wouldn't have the slightest problem finding someone to ask. Even the little things are thought of - such as distributing the USB powered lights to people who are reading and getting them to turn their overhead lights off, which makes for a nice dark cabin if you want to try to sleep.

Unless you're one of those people who just hates the whole DJ style, the choice across the Pacific is a complete no-brainer. The one and only thing they could possibly do better would be to have the good old hot towels. QF would have to be significantly cheaper to make me consider them on this route.

[Michael Morrison]

Did this ever get verified?
.

The flight never ops ion WED's in May.

I believe it is back now though.... loads have picked up - she went out full on Sunday night.

[Will H]

Even the little things are thought of - such as distributing the USB powered lights to people who are reading and getting them to turn their overhead lights off, which makes for a nice dark cabin if you want to try to sleep.

What's this about USB lights?

[Robert S]

What's this about USB lights?

One of the features of RED in all classes (http://www.vaustralia.com.au/in-flight-services/economy/index.htm) is a USB slot to the right of the screen. I believe it can be used by the IFE to drive your music and read PDFs, but it certainly can be used to power any permitted device that can accept USB power.

Shortly after the Economy cabin lights have been switched off (which is not abrupt, they go through a series of colours as they fade out), the crew come around with a massive bag of USB powered LED lights. For any pax using the overhead light the crew will plug in a USB light and get the pax to switch off the overhead. The cabin becomes sufficiently dark that most people take the hint and will request a USB light if they want one and those few who don't are rapidly spotted by the crew, who will quickly appear with another personal light.

In Premium Y and Business, there is a personal light built into the seat.

[Andrew M]

So they won't let you use the overhead lights for reading at night ?

[Robert S]

Due to the high impact on other passengers (at least I presume this is the reason), no, they do not. The USB LED light is more then adequate - if not more suitable - for the task.

It's essentially the same as not being able to open your window blinds when the cabin is in night mode and the sun is not (apart from the bit about having a suitable replacement).

[Erik H. Bakke]

Wouldn't it be better, then, to get overhead lights with a narrower spread installed instead?

Having USB-powered lights or in-seat snakelights will complicate the cabin fitout and create more points of failure.

Narrow-spread overhead lights would, in most cases, be as simple as replacing the bulb/reflector assembly to another model.

[Andrew M]

Never heard of an airline where they make you turn off the overhead lights at night!

[Gareth U]

Having USB-powered lights or in-seat snakelights will complicate the cabin fitout and create more points of failure.

But if the USB power system did not work they would probably allow use of the reading lights above. No?

If the reading lights above can only be controlled through the IFE remote/PTV and the USB lights do not work because the system is down, then you most likely cannot use the reading lights anyway.

On Qantas 744s if the Rockwell Collins system is down you cannot use the central reading lights anyway, as the on/off control is on the IFE remote. The 330s have a small button next to each reading light as a back-up control.

In seat snake lights (instead of, or in addition to reading lights) are a feature of most airlines' premium cabins.

[Mike W]

^ I have to ask? What's the big deal? Good on V Aus for having the awareness of people's privacy. How is it this thread is still going...?

[Andrew M]

Appears that they do!

[Robert S]

And surly they cannot force you not to use the overhead light...

They can't "force" you to close your window shade when the cabin is in night mode and it's sunny outside. But when's the last time you saw a passenger insist on this?

Given the USB lighting is functionally the same if not better than the overhead light, insisting on using an overhead light is just as anti-social and inappropriate behaviour as opening a window shade to allow bright sunlight into a cabin in night mode for people to sleep, the only difference being the quantity of other passengers impacted by such rudeness and you'd be asked not to, accordingly.

Never heard of an airline where they make you turn off the overhead lights at night!

Yes, but have you previously heard of an airline that offered an alternative and arguably better form of personal lighting such as that offered by V Australia?

Singapore Airlines did initially promote a similar feature (http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_UK/content/exp/new/economyclass/seatfeatures.jsp) on their new cabin fitout on the A380 and newer 777s which is a light on the lower side of the seat back PTV which can be used if you pull it forward. Sadly (and unlike the USB light) this isn't nearly as effective or suitable as the overhead light so they don't ask passengers to turn it off and they've changed the wording on their website from "For the first time, a private reading light is present in front of every seat, creating a more comfortable environment for everyone (http://web.archive.org/web/20071012014356/http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_UK/content/exp/new/economyclass/seatfeatures.jsp)" to simply a "personal, non-intrusive reading light".

It is something people want and having experienced it, I can say it works really well on V Australia.

^ I have to ask? What's the big deal?

I don't get it either. It's a win-win feature... those who want to work or read have a well-lit environment to do it and those who want to sleep have a significantly darker than usual environment in which to attempt it. The difference is noticable and I found it much easier to catch some sleep. Yes, I always use eye masks (and every passenger gets one on V Australia) but I do notice the light levels coming in from below... or at least I have in the past.

[Carl F]

Just a question relating to this.....what is the airlines (none specific) policy around when they will ask for the window shaes to be pulled down.
Last time I went back to the UK, I flew BA, and was asked to pull the blinds down quite early in the flight when it was still broad daylight outside.

Also later in the flight when it was sun down (sun was over the horizon but the sky was still a bit light) I wanted to have a peak to see the sight of the wing and engine against the sunset and was asked to put the blind down. In this instance the light entering the cabin was not that fierce.

At neither time did I protest but I am curious.

Do they try and get the passengers into the 'time zone' of their destination or is it purely to stop sun rays illuminating the cabin at any time?

Next flight for me is in Jan on Virgin via HK and will have my trusty DSLR with me for some good photos hopefully. Would be handy to know what the airlines policies are, dont want to upset anyone.

cheers
carl

[Andrew M]

Yes, but have you previously heard of an airline that offered an alternative and arguably better form of personal lighting such as that offered by V Australia?


Nope it is a great idea, perhaps why there has been such an interest on here on a reading light :D

[Andrew P]

just as anti-social and inappropriate behaviour

come on its a free world we live in!!

[Mike W]

come on its a free world we live in!!

If it's a free world to exibit anti-social and inappropriate behaviour, then expect said free world doctrine to offer a smack in the head in return. You'd have no recourse

[Mick B]

Do they try and get the passengers into the 'time zone' of their destination or is it purely to stop sun rays illuminating the cabin at any time?


It's more likely that they want the cabin as dark as possible, which means more people asleep which means less work for the cabin crew.

Cabin crew notoriously hate daylight sectors as passengers are mostly awake and they have to work rather than sit in the galley and chat :rolleyes:

[Andrew P]

If it's a free world to exibit anti-social and inappropriate behaviour,

it is not anti-social to open a blind or turn on a light QED

[Andrew M]

It's more likely that they want the cabin as dark as possible, which means more people asleep which means less work for the cabin crew.


That is a possibility!

An asleep passenger consumes less food/drinks/snacks than an awake passenger :p:cool::rolleyes:

[Andrew M]

So with the MEL-LAX launch day coming close, no news from V Australia, I assume that the flights are going ahead as planned ?

[Marty H]

Marty H - please do not quote the previous entire post. It is not necessary and has been continually explained and requested to all - mod.

Yes they are fouth B77W is due in the next week or so.

[Adam.S]

So with the MEL-LAX launch day coming close, no news from V Australia, I assume that the flights are going ahead as planned ?

Isn't it still going ahead as Virgin Blue domestic flights to either Sydney or Brisbane ex Melbourne?

[Andrew M]

15th September is the first MEL-LAX non-stop flight!

As per this thread, there were lots of rumors about the MEL-LAX non-stop being canceled.

Talk of people being routed via SYD or BNE

Now with just over a month to go, there has been no new information provided either as rumor or a press release.

The 4th 777 for VA is due VERY soon, and if they were going to can MEL-LAX and announce a new route (JNB) I would have thought they would have done this by now so they could start taking bookings for the new route.

So anyone with any more information/gossip/rumor ?

[Arthur T]

Provided the 4th plane is coming very soon, I still want to know when will their 5th plane arrives...
According to HKG Slot site, VA has applied a BNE - HKG service. So I just wondering if they launch the MEL-LAX, then will there be enough planes to do BNE-HKG?
I think it is time for VA to announce their next service and start taking commutors before it is too late and planes are travelling around with no passengers on board.

[Andrew M]

The 4th plane is due to arrive anyday!

The 5th and 6th planes have been deferred for "up to 2 years"

http://business.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/virgin-blue-delays-plane-deliveries-20090423-agce.html

[BradR]

I'm off to Boston in a couple of months and at this stage I will be on V Australia in Y+. Return fare including the apparently very good VX on internal US flights is $1900 compared with $4800 on QF in Y+ and that is with horrible AA domestic service between LAX and BOS.

Current outbound sector is shown on booking engine as non-stop MEL-LAX. Unfortunately homeward journey will be via BNE or SYD but at least you get Y+ on DJ also.

Only down part of VA is that Y+ pax don't get int'l lounge access even if they are members of The Lounge.

Brad

[Andrew P]

I love when people compare DJ with QF for fares purposes. Apples vs. oranges in most cases.

No idea what date you are flying, so did a comparative on out (SYD-LAX-BOS) 9 Oct and back 9 Nov (same route)

VA= A$3,139 QF=A$3,552

In effect very similar, where did you get your $4800 fare?

Banjo

[Andrew M]

The Alaskan lounge at LAX is nothing at all to get excited about.... Neither are the other lounges that V Australia have access to for that matter.

If V Australia are serious about the business traveler they will work out lounge access to Air NZ lounges or invest in their own lounges in Australia that are of a better quality.

[Michael Mak]

http://paineairport.com/images/kpae5412.jpg

VH-VPF is seen here behind KE 77W and next to AI 77W. Delivery should be very soon.

[Phillippe M]

It wasn't there last Friday when we visited the Boeing factory tour. Well not that I could see.

[Andrew M]

One month to the launch of MEL-LAX (Non-Stop)

I would assume that in this case no news is good news and the route is launching at planned!

:D

[Blair M]

VH-VPF is seen here behind KE 77W and next to AI 77W. Delivery should be very soon.

VPF is due end of Sep to V. In service a few days later ex LAX.

[Andrew M]

So this would mean they don't have enough planes for MEL-LAX-MEL (initially) ???

[Michael Mak]

VPF is due end of Sep to V. In service a few days later ex LAX.
Are you sure? MEL-LAX-MEL starts in just a month time....

VH-VPF was repositioned in Boeing factory.
http://paineairport.com/images/kpae5414.jpg

[Andrew M]

Yes well the whole MEL-LAX-MEL operation is still the question.

Heck it's the whole question that theis thread was raised over!

:eek:

[Blair M]

Are you sure?

Yes 99% sure

MEL-LAX direct prob won't start till Dec but don't quote me.

[Michael Morrison]

I thought the next 777 arrived in the next week or so?

[Steve Jones]

What may be considered is that the aircraft running SYD-LAX will do like UA and add a leg to/from Melbourne. This could happen initially with a view to running it direct later on when more aircraft become available and when the demand is proven?

[Andrew M]

Sounds about right...

Yes V Australia are still selling the Non-Stop flights on the website and have been for months now.

If they know they cannot operate the service as advertised they should be telling customers now.

I am sure lots of people have onward connecting flights and don't' want to arrive into LAX many hours later than what they have booked for.

[Jim W]

I thought the next 777 arrived in the next week or so?

It will depart LAX 1st Oct, I believe on it's first revenue flight

[Andrew M]

At least it is official now...

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25937911-664,00.html

MEL-LAX delayed until 1st December

Article states the MEL-LAX was only going to be twice a week....... That is rubbish it was always 3 times a week

The morons at V Australia have at least stopped bookings for MEL-LAX (non-stop) as of this morning but it still allows bookings 3 times a week from 1st December onwards.

Currently Tue, Thur & Sat flights I wonder what day will get canned to allow for the Phuket flights.

[Sarah C]

They seemed to have offset that news about MEL/LAX by announcing this:

From Travel Daily:


V Australia has just announced the launch of its "second phase expansion" which includes flights to Phuket and Johannesburg.The carrier will commence non-stop flights from Brisbane to Phuket twice weekly from 22 Nov, followed by a single weekly Melbourne to Phuket service from 03 Dec.The previously announced Melbourne-Los Angeles services will take off twice weekly from 01 Dec, while non-stop services from Melbourne to Johannesburg will commence from 13 Mar 2010

[Montague S]

non-stop MEL-JNB, I can really see this turning into "non-stop" LAX, where pax are ferried up to SYD for the flight, too bad they miss out on the lucrative expat market that is in WA.

[Andrew M]

Yes the Herald Sun mentions that MEL-LAX was only ever going to be 2 x weekly....

[Robert S]

Article states the MEL-LAX was only going to be twice a week....... That is rubbish it was always 3 times a week

A newspaper getting a slight detail wrong in an aviation story is hardly a newsflash.

The SMH got it right if it makes you feel any better.

http://business.smh.com.au/business/v-australia-spreads-its-wings-to-thailand-20090817-en22.html

[Andrew M]

http://www.vaustralia.com.au/about-us/media-releases/view-media-releases/P_009799.html

No mention of the cuts to MEL-LAX until December

My point was that V Australia have covered up the delays on the MEL-LAX route pretty well with all this expansion talk!

Just all good news ;) :cool:

You can STILL book MEL-LAX (non-stop) three times a week from 1st December on their website :mad:

[Lukas M]

You can STILL book MEL-LAX (non-stop) three times a week from 1st December on their website
Thats because IT IS 3 WEEKLY from 1st December

[Marty H]

Correct Lukas it wont go back to two weekly until MEL-JNB starts in March 2010.

[NickN]

too bad they miss out on the lucrative expat market that is in WA

Perth is already well served by South African. Unless they were really going to undercut the SA fare by a considerable amount they probably wouldn't find many willing to switch, especially ex-pats who are loyal to SA.

Melbourne seems like an odd choice for a MEL-JNB seems like an odd route considering many expats are in Sydney and Perth however Sydney is also well served by QF so I suppose it makes sense to find a new route to establish new business on.

For what its worth, any of my family that fly here from South Africa (They are spread far and wide from Port Elizabeth, Durban, Sasolburg and Pretoria) they always end up flying SA to Perth first even though QF offers a direct Sydney flight.

[Andrew M]

Thats because IT IS 3 WEEKLY from 1st December

NO - You are wrong there

http://www.vaustralia.com.au/about-us/media-releases/view-media-releases/P_009799.html

Melbourne to Los Angeles, USA direct flights twice weekly from 1 December 2009.

[Michael Morrison]

Big deal they arent doing MEL-LAX 3 weekly.... at least they still get a non stop MEL-LAX option twice weekly... better than nothing!

MEL also does well with the other new services so you can't complain to much :)

[Montague S]

Perth is already well served by South African. Unless they were really going to undercut the SA fare by a considerable amount they probably wouldn't find many willing to switch, especially ex-pats who are loyal to SA.


6 flights per week isn't what I would call well served, there is plenty of room for more competition...I don't get the Melbourne idea, ok, the world cup gig and all is one thing, but what happens when that month is over? There isn't a large expat community of SA's in Melbourne.

[Lukas M]

NO - You are wrong there

http://www.vaustralia.com.au/about-u.../P_009799.html (http://www.vaustralia.com.au/about-us/media-releases/view-media-releases/P_009799.html)

Melbourne to Los Angeles, USA direct flights twice weekly from 1 December 2009.
It seems that could just be an error. Just off the phone to VA re my booking, and they assured me that it was 3 weekly

But who cares I guess.

[Justin L]

6 flights per week isn't what I would call well served, there is plenty of room for more competition...I don't get the Melbourne idea, ok, the world cup gig and all is one thing, but what happens when that month is over? There isn't a large expat community of SA's in Melbourne.

I think the World Cup mention is a bit of PR but also a good kick start (no pun intended) as many people may be introduced to VA for the first time when they go to the World Cup.

I read in other posts/articles/websites that part of the JNB-MEL thinking was so increase the Virgin group's ability to sell round the world tickets (LON-JNB-MEL-LAX-LON as one option).

Not knowing the full demographic of South African expats in Perth, I'd expect they're not all from Jo'burg, so perhaps SA would be a better product for them to connect to/from other cities (similar to UA on the US-SYD route) and VA thought they'd try and create a new market. They may even get connecting traffic from BNE/ADL/SYD/NZ through MEL to JNB as domestic/international connections are easy in MEL anyway due to all terminals being connected under one roof unlike SYD/PER/BNE. They may even take away some of QF's and SA's connecting traffic through SYD and PER respectively.

Air Mauritius pulled out of Sydney but kept Melbourne, so maybe there is a market out of Melbourne for the Southern Indian Ocean region that VA have seen?

[Andrew M]

It seems that could just be an error. Just off the phone to VA re my booking, and they assured me that it was 3 weekly

But who cares I guess.

Me as I have a booking on the Tuesday flights :p

Otherwise I wouldn't care so much.

They assure me the flights are going as normal, but that does NOT reassure me at all they they did the same thing with the SYD and BNE launch and were still selling tickets for Sep/Oct/Nov flights MEL-LAX and saying they had no reason to delay the MEL-LAX launch, even though the plane wasn't due until after the launch....

Time will tell, but I am planning my onwards bookings so cannot rely on changes to my flight schedule.

[Robert S]

They assure me the flights are going as normal, but that does NOT reassure me at all they they did the same thing with the SYD and BNE launch

Remember that those delays were due to the Boeing strikes delaying delivery of their first planes... no planes no service!

There doesn't seem to be any real concern with the aircraft delivery schedule at this point in time.

[Andrew M]

Okay so after a few emails back and forward, V Australia still tell me that they are flying on Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday MEL-LAX from 1st December.

When I pushed about the timings of the flight and if they would be "Non-Stop"

They recommended that "I take out travel insurance and read the fine print in case it didn't' cover delays" etc etc, as they are not sure if any of the flights will be non-stop....

Very POOR and NOT IMPRESSED.

I can see that V Aus will simply put people on a domestic flight from MEL to either SYD or BNE if the loads are not good enough for a direct flight from MEL-LAX.

[Andrew M]

Correct Lukas it wont go back to two weekly until MEL-JNB starts in March 2010.

Interesting...

The booking engine shows 3 x weekly all through up until July next year...

MEL-LAX: Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday
LAX-MEL: Tuesday, Thursday and Sundays

[Marty H]

Andrew I guess it all depends on aircraft rotations, I havent checked the booking engine myself and honestly am a bit confused since in the media they did say twice a week and could see it being three a week up until MEL-JNB started in March 10, lose the third service to start MEL-JNB. Im not sure how the rotations will work weather the aircraft that ops back to MEL from LAX will then ops to JNB and then back to MEL and then through again to LAX, or maybe the aircraft that does MEL-JNB-MEL wil then go to HKT and back to MEL, can see the need to two aircraft to be ops through MEL to meet the schedual, especially if as the booking engine suggests MEL-lAX remains x3 weekly.

[Andrew M]

Thanks :) I honestly don't think VA really know what they are doing with MEL-LAX either. Their press release don't match their booking engine and the customer service reps are very VAGUE

My guess is all this is a publicity stunt to try to generate more bookings, if bookings don't increase they will simply shunt people via SYD/BNE.

The word "direct" is interesting, as it's not "non-stop"

I was very disappointed with the advice to simply take out travel insurance in case they stuff me around with flights.

I have booked 2 x J class seats with VA for next year MEL-LAX, cancellation fee is $550 each......

Very tempted just to cancel and book on Air NZ for peace of mind..

[D Chan]

Demand them to either transfer you to another airline that does non-stop or ask for a full refund. You shouldn't have to pay $550 if they are not even able to tell you afterall you have paid the fare in goodwill. If they are not going ahead and still want you to pay the $550 I would bring this to the ACCC,

[Andrew M]

Yes well I booked my tickets about a month ago on the basis that the flight was non-stop and will operate by that.

The "confusion" around if the flights are 2 x weekly or 3 x weekly is concerning enough, let along that 2 different customer service reps have simply said to get travel insurance to cover me if they don't operate as advertised.

I will give them a call tomorrow and ask them to book me on Qantas or Air NZ, I know the answer will be NO.

I am not willing to wait for the day of departure and then find out for "operational reasons" that I am flying via SYD and will arrive into LAX 10 hours later than planned, and then miss my onward flights.

[Michael Morrison]

They won't book you on QF OR NZ.

The best they would do I presume is to rebook on another VA flight or give you a refund.

[Chris Thurtell]

I am not willing to wait for the day of departure and then find out for "operational reasons" that I am flying via SYD and will arrive into LAX 10 hours later than planned, and then miss my onward flights.

Welcome to my world. We had flights booked MEL>LAX in November. If we took the SYD option we would be in the same prediciment (missing our connecting flights from LAX), so now we are flying out of BNE a day earlier.

The best the VA CSR was willing to offer was to book us on the SYD>LAX flight the same day (not that they even knew the MEL flights had been pushed back till December), thankfully my mrs works as a travel agent and has sorted something out.

Our travel insurance is going to cover the cost of accom in LA for the night luckily.

[Andrew M]

Chris: Hope it works out!

From the other thread about VA new flights, but it is more relevant in this thread.

or we might just want them to fly the route that they advertised when they said it was due to happen...

Exactly - This is the outcome of numerous emails and phone calls about the MEL-LAX flights :rolleyes:

1. VA still will not confirm 100% that firstly the MEL-LAX flights will be non-stop from the 1st of December

2. They advise me to take out travel insurance in case they re-schedule the flights via SYD/BNE

3. They cannot confirm if the flights will be 2 x weekly or 3 x weekly.