Storms/curfew!

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Just checking yesterday's movements and looks like the storms last night must have continued near the airport well into the night.

3 a/c were logged at 12:46AM thru 12:59AM:

CPA138 12:46am
QFA21 12:48am
UAE413 12:59am

they must have received curfew dispensation for them to leave that late.

[Phil M]

There were 5 that left after 12:30am this morning. They all taxied before 11pm and waited for the wind to abate... All perfectly legal :)

[Les Taylor]

I am a bit puzzled by the post. They departed at after 12.45 am, yet taxied before 11pm. This seems like a very long time to be waiting around for wind to abate.

I am no expert, but in conditions of unfavourable weather, how long in practice would a crew wait for weather to subside before deciding not to take off? Twenty minutes, half an hour, would these waiting times usually be considered reasonable?

On a related subject, from the perspective of persons living near the airport, even if an aircraft DID commence its taxi before 11pm, the guidelines from DOTARS provide that it would be a very rare occurrence that a dispensation would allow an aircraft to depart after midnight. Would the supervisory authorities, even if this were technically legal, still disapprove of the events described in this post?

If any knowledgeable person could assist, it would be greatfully appreciated.

[Lukas M]

As long as they have requested pushed back by 10.59 they are cleared to go. 11pm Curfew dosn't always mean that its wheels up by 11.01pm or your going nowhere.

Just purely a clever move in the end of things.

[Phil M]

As long as the aircraft is receipt of a taxi clearance before 11pm local, the aircraft can depart 16R from the full length at any time.

Just to be clear, there was no dispensation required or requested. The Atlas 747 did the exact same thing last night. They had a taxi clearance at 10:59:45pm.

Whilst is was unusual to have 5 waiting to go well after midnight, the total delay for most of these aircraft was only 3 hours or so as they usually depart reasonably close to curfew.

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/dap/SSYNA03-110.pdf

Read: 4.4 (b) (iv)

[chrisb]

Where do they 'park' during this? Do they keep the engine running or just go back to APU?

[Chris Roope]

So 5 aircraft for an hour and a half, that might be 14 engines at about 600kg an hour... 12600kg.... thats about 16000 litres of fuel just to satisfy some beurocratic crap. How many Tonnes of carbon is that I wonder?

[NickN]

Chris,

As opposed to accommodating all the passengers overnight, in hotel rooms that were more than likely already booked, therefore transporting all passengers from 5 flights accross Sydney on buses and paying for their meals and all the other expenses that come with it? Staff overtime etc etc.

I think we can conclude the airlines did the most reasonable thing by themselves and their passengers by ensuring the flight departed.

[Krzysztof M]

Nick, if you read Chris's comment carefully you'll see that's exactly what he meant. Had there been no beaurocracy, the aircraft could sit at the gate with engines off and wait for the weather to clear then depart with no issues after midnight.

[JasonV]

I was onboard the EK A380. CX was ahead and QF was adjacent. We had taxiied away from the terminal and waited adjacent to the cargo terminal. I dont know the exact taxiways but outside the left side windows was the QF freight terminal so basically once we got clearance we did a 180deg right turn and took off.

[NickN]

That would be Taxiway Aplha from memory.