Jetstar - to crosscheck or not to crosscheck?

[Jack B]

On Friday I flew on JQ for the first time since Jan 08 on a BNK-SYD A320. I noticed the Cabin Manager made the announcement of "Cabin Crew arm your doors", same as Qantas

However, the last time I flew JQ SYD-DPS-SYD on an A330 in Jan 08, I clearly remember the announcement being "Cabin Crew arm doors and crosscheck" and seeing the crew crosscheck after arming, same as Virgin Blue.

Is this a difference between A320 and A330 ops, or have JQ stopped cross checking after arming/disarming the doors. If so, why?

[Jason H]

Is the crosscheck only a Jetstar thing? In Australia, i've only ever flown Qantas and a few times on an A330, and they never said "and crosscheck" after "arm doors". Of course, the last 330 flight for me was at least 3 years ago.

[Marty H]

On VB flights its always 'arm/disarm doors and cross check' I think the cross check is important with something like arming/disarming the slides as its a second pair of eyes going over to ensure it is correct I mean in an emergency situation if the doors arent armed correctly you have a disaster on your hands and arent able to either evacuate the aircraft as quick or safely as if the slides are deployed properly also if they arent disarmed correctly on arrival at the gate you have a mamouth safety issue if a slide depolys.

[Craig Murray]

I think you'll find that the crew do infact cross check the doors and report this via the interphone directly to the Cabin Manager/Supervisor. Could be wrong but I'm sure I've heard this procedure used on many flights on both airlines.

[Brendan Lawrence]

Jack; at Jetstar we used to crosscheck after arming or disarming doors on all aircraft types, but have since dropped the requirement to crosscheck. A lot of our Standard Operating Procedures and Emergency Procedures are in line with Qantas to maintain a Group-wide standard, but that crosschecking procedure was one difference we had.

Combined with bringing that into line with Qantas, the other reason is that we operate an all-Airbus fleet and all Airbus doors are cleverly designed to automatically disarm if the door is opened from the outside in armed mode. This prevents inadvertent slide deployment by ground staff on the outside and avoiding serious injury or death in the process (the door's power-assist opening and inflatable slide/raft could do some damage).

So this feature is an added backup if a door is accidentally left armed after the disarm call is given. Plus, cabin crew will never open or close a door in normal operation (only in an emergency evacuation), this is ground staff's responsibility, so there's no chance of blowing a slide from crew opening the door when they shouldn't.

Having said all that, most cabin crew I work with, and myself, will still glance at the opposing crew member's door to double check the door mode just to be sure - but no official cross-over happens.

[Owen H]

...the other reason is that we operate an all-Airbus fleet and all Airbus doors are cleverly designed to automatically disarm if the door is opened from the outside in armed mode. This prevents inadvertent slide deployment by ground staff on the outside and avoiding serious injury or death in the process (the door's power-assist opening and inflatable slide/raft could do some damage).

Boeings do the same thing.

[Jack B]

Jack; at Jetstar we used to crosscheck.....

Thanks for the reply! With the automatic disarming when opened from the outside, doesn't surprise me that the crosscheck was dropped.

[Jack B]

Boeings do the same thing.

Which Boeings?

the 737's doesn't. Although, with the girt bar design and the little orange strip across the window when armed, to me it seems an unlikely door for an accidental slide blow

[Raymond Rowe]

From memory NONE of the boeings have an automatic disarm.The only thing that saves an airbus is a red light comes on in the door if you start to open it from the outside and it is still armed.But they might have changed it on the later Busses

[Marty H]

Which Boeings?

the 737's doesn't. Although, with the girt bar design and the little orange strip across the window when armed, to me it seems an unlikely door for an accidental slide blow

Proceedure says it shouldnt happen, I mean we are as ground crew are not to even put up the rear stairs until cabin crew have 'cracked' the door same with boarding gate staff and the aerobridge.

[Jack B]

Do all airlines have the procedure of cracking the door on the 737?

[Owen H]

Which Boeings?

From memory NONE of the boeings have an automatic disarm.The only thing that saves an airbus is a red light comes on in the door if you start to open it from the outside and it is still armed.But they might have changed it on the later Busses

The 767 and 747-400 certainly do.

747 - "When the door mode select lever is in ARMED position and the door is opened using the exterior door handle, the door mode select lever mechanically positions to DISARMED and the door may be opened without slide deployment".

767 - "The emergency door opening system and the slide are automatically disarmed when the door is opened from the outside."

This is why many airlines procedure is to open the door from the outside at the gate.

The door-cracking on the 737 makes sense if it does not automatically disarm.

[Brendan Lawrence]

I'm trained on Airbus so I can't speak from fact about Boeing doors other than what I've learnt from my housemate who is crew for Virgin Blue. And I have been told about the 'cracking' of the doors on the 737 immediately after doors are disarmed, which indicate to ground staff that it is safe to fully open the door from the outside.

Regarding the lights on the Airbus door (which are located in the viewing window portal for cabin crew and staff on the outside to see) - there is a red cabin pressure warning light that will start flashing if doors are disarmed on arrival and there is residual cabin pressurisation which could cause the door to open with explosive force. I think this is when the pressure outflow/outlet valves have not correctly depressurised the aircraft during descent. The other light is a flat white light which will illuminate with the text "SLIDE ARMED" when the door operating handle even slightly starts to be rotated upward whilst the door is armed - another added safety feature.

[Adam G]

The B777 also automatically disengages when opened from the outside.

On the B737 because the girt bar is manually moved into the floor brackets there is no way to disarm it from the outside. Cracking the doors achieves 2 things - firstly it actually takes a lot to blow a B737 slide - I've seen crew crack & reclose doors in the armed mode & not deploy the slide - the slide won't actually deploy until it folly drops out of the bustle. Secondly they are cracked so early that in the remote chance the slide is accidently blown it's before all the GSE & ground staff are close enough to wear it. The B737 would be the easiest of most aircraft to get an accidental demployment on though because cabin crew are actually manipulating the door handles in normal operations.

On most other aircraft cabin crew don't open or close the doors in anything except an emergency, as a result they don't ever usally touch the door operating handle so tend not to accidently operate it.

A lot of operators still do cross check however (mine does) - it serves other purposes apart from preventing accidental deployments - specifically it actually checks that the door is armed correctly so if a deployment is necessary the slide will actually deploy.

[Jack B]

Did the same apply to 707's? I know they had the same girt bar design as the 737, however in the 60s and 70s I'm not sure if airlines even required the doors to be armed in normal operations