VirginBlue to launch a three class configuration ?

[Andre H]

The airline, which already offers premium economy seats, is looking at adding a new segment between this class and regular economy.
Virgin Blue CEO Brett Godfrey explained that the proposed segment would have a smaller seat pitch to premium economy, but it would have a wider pitch than regular economy.

e travel blackboard (http://www.etravelblackboard.com/showarticle.asp?nav=2&id=101488)

[NickN]

So Y, Y+ and "Sorta Y+"?

Hmmmmmm.

[BradR]

Sounds a bit convoluted for a 737!!!! DJ are still trying to establish their existing Y+ product in the market and adding another class would seem to be a recipe for confusion.

[Arthur T]

Perhaps think they are doing something like "Main Cabin Select" as Virgin America.

Currently Virgin Blue is a no-frills airline where if you need to be feed, entertained or luggage carried for free you have to pay $ or pay $$$ for Premium Economy. Think a class in between that you pay $$ and you can get all those 3 things for free is reasonable. If the price is cheap enough I think it will become a huge threat to Qantas, where some passengers looking for a better full service carrier will shift to DJ as it has better service and newer aircraft (DJ's new E190 & B738 compared to those aging B763s running on QF Domestic for some most popular routes)

[NickN]

QF full service is fine IMO. And I'd rather the 763 over the 738 any day!

Where you got the notion DJ service is "better" than QF I don't know... perhaps you could share your thoughts? Last I flew QF they went above and beyond to make the trip a great one, the hosties even took some time to talk with my kids and have a laugh.

Or is this a case of the "big bad dangerous poorly maintained 767-300 is a horrible aircraft you are afraid to fly" type comment?

[Martin Buzzell]

...and have you been on the 190? The cabin creaks more than the floorboards in my house!!

[NickN]

I have flown the 170 a few times and found it extremely pleasant. Not only did I enjoy the slightly wider economy seating, but the aircraft performance was exceptional and the cabin was relatively quiet.

The DJ pilots did a great job od landing in Canberra with 20 + knot crosswinds and low cloud and rain.

[Ash W]

I have flown on two jungle jets, one DJ (CBR-MEL) and one AF (Brest-CDG) and not sure why but on both trips my ears hurt like hell on decent and for a good hour or so after the flight. Never have the same issue on any other a/c.

As for this proposal it does sound convoluted indeed. Why not stick with 2 class. Premium Y where you get extra room and free tucker, and Y where less room and you pay. I just cannot see the need for an in between class on an Australian domestic flight.

[matthew mcdonald]

Where you got the notion DJ service is "better" than QF I don't know... perhaps you could share your thoughts?


I agree with Anthony 100%. There have been times on Qantas that I have been denied certain things that I have never been denied by Virgin. For example there was one time on a flight from Sydney-Port Maquarie on an E170 that when we landed I asked to visit the cockpit. They not only let me in but offered to let me stay on the plane in the cockpit until the other passengers for the return trip boarded. (That day i was doing Syd-Port-Syd).

On Qantas however, there has only been one time i have ever been alllowed in the cockpit (for a split second) and all the other times I have asked I have been denied. I have even been told countless times when Ive had my camera out to put it away as it is against safety and security regulations.

I am not saying I woudnt fly Qantas becasue I will but Virgin Blue has 10 times better service than Qantas.

[Jack B]

in my personal opinion, on domestic flights, the DJ service is not all that great. Sure, the flight attendants might all be young and attractive, but they aren't always an improvement. I've had DJ crew with an attitude FAR worse than any I've ever seen from QF crew

QF domestic is totally different to DJ. They might be operated by Long Haul crew if the flight is an A330, whereas 767 and 737 flights are Short Haul crew. TOTALLY different divisions to work in, which inevitably can affect the way one approaches work, and can be from various bases and employed under different contracts and divisions. Despite this, I myself find Qantas to always have good service. I prefer the more professional look and attitude of Qantas crew, and am yet to find the "arrogant" behaviour many people speak of. Australians love to bash Qantas, which is totally unfair, because it's domestic service is MILES ahead of what you'd get elsewhere in the world. Anyone here flown Us Airways? not good...

I'd rather pay what is often a small difference (DJ isn't cheap) and get a complementary meal service on a 767, than $5 pringles on a squishy 737

[Nic P]

I agree with Anthony 100%. There have been times on Qantas that I have been denied certain things that I have never been denied by Virgin. For example there was one time on a flight from Sydney-Port Maquarie on an E170 that when we landed I asked to visit the cockpit. They not only let me in but offered to let me stay on the plane in the cockpit until the other passengers for the return trip boarded. (That day i was doing Syd-Port-Syd).

On Qantas however, there has only been one time i have ever been alllowed in the cockpit (for a split second) and all the other times I have asked I have been denied. I have even been told countless times when Ive had my camera out to put it away as it is against safety and security regulations.

I am not saying I woudnt fly Qantas becasue I will but Virgin Blue has 10 times better service than Qantas.


So by that logic I should be saying qantas has a hundred times better service than virgin as I was able to land in the jump seat on a PER BKK flight in a 763 at 10pm at night during thunder storms?

Was an amazing experience, but not a reason I choose QF over DJ

[Gareth U]

Jack -

QF Short Haul crew also operate the 330s. Qantas originally intended for only SH crew to operate them in the beginning. Qantas thought the 330s didn't necessarily 'belong' to LH. Unions agreed to share. Now the split is about 80(LH) 20(SH) though it was the other way for some time.

[NickN]

Matt, don't you find it rather harsh you are judging service quality based on being allowed access to the cockpit? Maybe from a spotters perspective DJ works for you, but that's not what the crux of the discussion is.

And as for being told by QF staff to put your camera away for security reasons in-flight, well maybe on a certain flight but from what I have seen there are plenty of in-flight cabin shots on Jetphotos, 152 to be exact with the most recent being from Jan 25, 2010 so that would tell me they have a fairly open policy on camera usage in-flight.

Personally the last time I flew QF (last year) from Brisbane to Sydney they were quite happy to let me snap away during all phases of the flight.

Ultimately however, for a flight which only lasts an hour or so, having 3 types of economy class seems strange to me. If someone can't survive a flight between sydney-brisbane-melboure-adelaide without a meal I'd be highly surprised. I personally wouldn't make use of the new "in-between" class, when I travel I just want to get there as cheap and quickly as possible (domestically).

[matthew mcdonald]

Fair enough Nick. I apologise for my post being more in favour from a spotters perspective than anything else. Ultimately all I wanted to put across was my personal opinion that I agreed with Anthony and believe that Virgin blue do have a higher service of customer care.

[NickN]

It's all good mate, and yes for us spotters we tend to take into account things like cockpit access more than others do.

As with most organizations, customer service/care seems to fluctuate depending on who you manage to get on the day. Uniform customer care is something most companies aspire to but rarely manage to achieve, basically because their representatives all have different personalities and perceptions of what is or isn't good care.

It's a shame that that is the way but unfortunately it's probably going to be an ongoing issue until they can clone their reps in the same image.

[Hakan I]

DJ all the way, cabin crew always make it enjoyable and provide excellent service with the added bonus of them all being very attractive, QF on the other hand seem to lack something i consider important when flying ... customer service! ... i would pay more to fly DJ and of course VA than i would QF anyday, rarely have i had problems with DJ/VA and when i have it has been handled very well, apply the opposite to QF.

Hakan

[James Smith]

Choose between Y+, Y & Y- Sounds like my school report many years ago!

[Justin L]

A bit more detail from an SMH article here (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/virgin-blue-to-put-squeeze-on-passengers-20100303-pimk.html). I quite like the concept.

Virgin Blue to put squeeze on passengers
March 6, 2010

There are different classes of economy on the horizon at Virgin Blue. Clive Dorman reports.

The cheap seats at the back of Virgin Blue planes may be pushed even closer together next year as Australia's second-largest airline moves back into profit and further into a project known internally as "the airline of the future".

The outgoing chief executive and airline founder, Brett Godfrey, says the project will be one of the first items on the agenda of the airline's new leader, announced this week. John Borghetti, 54, the former second-in-charge at Qantas and a 36-year industry veteran, will replace Godfrey, who says he is retiring to "do nothing for 18 months".

Godfrey outlined details of the project at last week's half-year financial briefing, where he revealed the airline group had recorded a net profit of $62.5 million, even though its long-haul carrier, V Australia, launched last February, lost $39 million in the six months to the end of December 2009.

Godfrey says the "airline of the future" project, which has occupied senior management for the past 12-18 months, will set three distinctive zones on each aircraft: premium economy, "a traditional economy" and a "low-cost, user-pays model" at the back of the aircraft.

"We're ready to roll it out but, given my tenure [ending], I think it's appropriate now that the next person have a look at it to see if they think it's the right way to progress," Godfrey says.

He says the airline has not, until now, "got a lot of value" from its economy seating that offers more space than that of competing low-cost carriers such as Jetstar and Tiger.

"So we've seen an ability to lower our costs further by putting in more seats and being comparable in terms of seat pitch," he says.

When it started in 2000, Virgin Blue offered standard economy seats with a 32-inch pitch (the distance between rows, and the best indication of comfort). But its economy seat pitch is now listed on its own website and seatguru.com as 30-31 inches (30-33 inches on the 737-800). Jetstar and Tiger don't list seat pitch on their websites, but according to seatguru.com they offer 30-inch pitch on their A320s.

"We are a great believer that we can be pretty much all things to all people," Godfrey says. "We don't believe we have to segment our airline between a quality brand and a low-cost brand.

"We think that we can do it on the [one] aeroplane, which is, I might add, what Qantas does today when they travel trans-Pacific.

"They have a first, business, premium economy and economy - they do it on the one aircraft. So that's what we're looking at doing on a short-haul regional perspective."

V Australia has the three-class set-up on its trans-Pacific services and Godfrey believes the much-maligned carrier, which he originally promised would take 18 months to make a profit, will do so by September this year.

The airline, launched during the global financial crisis, broke even in December and made a "strong profit" in January when its aircraft were 90 per cent full.

[Steve Grayson]

Firstly I currently work for DJ but have also worked for QF. I have also flown on all the jet carriers in OZ on many occasions and have to say that as percentages go, DJ gets the gong.
$ for $, DJ provides an all round better atmosphere irrespactive of the type of tube you are in, length of flight or cabin zone.
I think for the average punter and above (Frequent Flyer, Business types and those with a few more $$ to spend) then DJ is the obvious choice.
Having 3 classes will provide an even wider choice for all demographics in this country and in this fair land, freedom of choice is gold.
No bias in my post as I believe all jet carriers in Oz have their merits but rolling all the choices into one carrier is a winner when you combine our Flair, Fun and Freedom to choose...
Steve :D