Tiger brings forward more aircraft deliveries

[lloyd fox]

Travelbeat news

Update: February 04, 2010 [1 Story] Singapore
Tiger Airways Inks Deal To Advance Deliveries


Tiger Airways Holdings has concluded another advance delivery agreement with Airbus, at the Singapore Air Show 2010.

Four Airbus A320 aircraft, originally scheduled to be delivered to Tiger Airways in 2016, will now be delivered in 2011.

These are in addition to the five aircraft that will be delivered later in 2010 and early 2011, ahead of their original delivery dates in 2016.

Currently, the Tiger fleet has 18 aircraft, with one more to be delivered in February 2010.

The fleet will increase by 74% to 33 aircraft over the next two financial years (April to March), with a total of fourteen aircraft deliveries.

Tony Davis, President and Chief Executive Officer of Tiger Airways, said ... “Following our strong operating numbers in the last quarter, we have further accelerated aircraft deliveries to take on the growth opportunities awaiting us in Asia and Australasia.

"Today we welcomed our 12 millionth passenger, and we look forward to carrying our next million soon.”

[NickN]

If they can bring their OTP up to speed and get some decent terminal space in Melbourne they'll continue doing well.

It looks like some of the dramas which happen on their TV show aren't discouraging passengers from using them which is good. I flew with them late last year and found their service to be reasonable and uneventful, although the Melbourne terminal they use didn't really promote a customer service based image, it made you feel more like cattle being herded onto a truck.

[Stephen Brown]

I guess that means they'll be able to **** more people off quicker.

[Marty H]

NickN,

Whole MEL base is off to AVV


Fox lures Tiger to Avalon

* John Beveridge
* From: Herald Sun
* February 03, 2010 12:38PM

Fox lures Tiger to Avalon | Herald Sun

LINDSAY Fox will have a broader smile on his dial than usual after successfully wooing Tiger Airways down the Geelong Road to Linfox's Avalon Airport.

While the deal is still being kept under wraps, my usually reliable spy tells me it is set to be announced later this month, barring any last-minute problems.

Under the proposed deal, Tiger would start to hand back its terminal space at Melbourne Airport and progressively move all of its operations and flights to Avalon later this year.

The attraction for the recently floated Tiger is much lower flight costs -- the same reason fellow budget airline and Qantas offshoot Jetstar originally decided to base many of its flights out of Avalon.

With Jetstar now offering flights from both Avalon and Melbourne airports, Tiger has struggled to profitably compete on the main Melbourne/Sydney, Melbourne/Coolangatta and soon to launch Melbourne/Brisbane route against the combined juggernaut of Qantas/Jetstar and Virgin Blue.

With very frequent flights and the ability to compete strongly on price, the larger airlines have made it very tough for Tiger to continue with its aggressive growth plans and become a profitable airline in Australia.

While the move will help Tiger contain costs and expand its flight schedule, Linfox is the biggest winner because the move cements Avalon's position as effectively Melbourne's low-cost carrier airport.

Many other countries have successfully run low-cost carrier airports despite larger distances from city centres.

Passenger movements at Avalon could now rise dramatically from the current million a year to several times that, depending on Tiger's successful expansion.

While Tiger only operates seven A320 aircraft in Australia at the moment, most of the $200 million it raised in its recent float on the Singapore stock exchange is earmarked for an aggressive Australian fleet expansion.

Managing director Tony Davis hopes to expand Tiger's international fleet -- including Australia -- to 68 A320s by 2015.

A move to Avalon also allows Tiger to really push its "bargain fares" model to include cheaper airport parking, although the greater distance from Melbourne will be a sticking point for some travellers.

While Tiger has lost more than $70 million since launching in Australia in 2007, Davis has claimed that the airline is here for the long haul and is already cash-flow positive.

[lloyd fox]

I flew with Tiger MEL-OOL last year and found them very good.I went Jetstar down and Tiger back and found Tiger better.Tiger offered me the emergency exit row which i accepted.Cabin crew were quite friendly and the captain gave a good commentary during the flight.Flight was ontime and the fare was the cheapest of the 2.

[Mike W]

opportunities awaiting us in Asia and Australasia

Australasia? Am I missing something or are they going over to make JQ NZ look good as well?

[NickN]

Mike, have you flown Tiger at all?

Lloyd, the captains commentary on my flight was excellent too, which was unusual but a pleasant surprise. The cabin crew were also good on my flight as well and the trip was very smooth.

Can't say flying into Avalon interests me but if the flights continue to remain cheap then I'd give it a try.

[Steve S... 2]

It all sounds very promising... but will Tiger Airways be around in 2016??? In fact, would they be around (in Australia) in 2011... !

Will never fly them again after one flight was two hours late, then the next was cancelled and left stuck in Melbourne overnight.

If anyone does fly Tiger Airways, it is a very bad move if you book onto the last or second last flight for the day! You will be left homeless for a night when the flight is cancelled. And the odds of that happening are very high...

I am going to do my own research, and trace flights by timetable and see exactly how they perform.

[NickN]

Andrew, regardless of the loss they continue to expand which to me indicates they expect their growth to be beneficial.

If the losses were of concern I couldn't see them bringing forward deliveries.

[Raymond Rowe]

Read in the Melbourne herald sun yesterday that tiger are moving all operations to avalon.

[Lukas M]

Avalon will be a 3rd base rather than the only Victorian base. Dont ever believe what a Journalist writes guys, Tiger Management are not that stupid, they are planning Avalon to push JQ out of there.

Nick - Tiger's Australian operation is operating at a lossA record profit will be posted this April by the group, yet the Aussie ops are losing single figures now. Whilst their Singaporean operation is highly profitable at the moment, they can afford to prop up Tiger Australia which should post a profit next fiscal year.

They are now in a stronger position considering the IPO has been an enormous success, and loads/yield is growing. They have the lowest cost base in the entire region now and this will continue to shrink as more aircraft arrive.

[Paul f.]

Nick - Tiger's Australian operation is operating at a loss. I am not sure what you mean as 'continue doing well'?Well they must be doing something right,as they are getting bums on to seats,as the flights into and out of MEL seem full,and 4 more aircraft to be based at MEL very soon.

[Mike W]

Mike, have you flown Tiger at all?

No, but I have flown with Jetstar and my Tiger reference comes from members of this board I respect

Does that count?

[Marty H]

Avalon will be a 3rd base rather than the only Victorian base. Dont ever believe what a Journalist writes guys, Tiger Management are not that stupid, they are planning Avalon to push JQ out of there.

Show me where that in the media report is the case, it clearly says all operations will be moved to AVV

A record profit will be posted this April by the group, yet the Aussie ops are losing single figures now. Whilst their Singaporean operation is highly profitable at the moment, they can afford to prop up Tiger Australia which should post a profit next fiscal year.

So you can turn a $55M loss into a record profit in the space of six months:rolleyes:

They are now in a stronger position considering the IPO has been an enormous success, and loads/yield is growing. They have the lowest cost base in the entire region now and this will continue to shrink as more aircraft arrive.

Ummm no it wasnt it was a major downgrade on the estimated $400M it was supposed to generate.

[Paul f.]

Paul - bums on seats does not equate to profitability. You can still fill planes and make a loss. It's a given if you price your fares low, the seats will sell. Not a good result for an investor...I am sure the investors would have done the sums.They cant be going too bad if they are increasing there services and adding more aircraft. The investors seem to think there doing all right or they would have pulled the plug by now.Tiger have done better than Compass MK1&2 and Impulse.

[NickN]

Andrew, I can only agree with Paul as he seems to be thinking the way I am. I couldn't see Tiger expanding routes and bringing on new aircraft if there wasn't indicators saying that profitability was there in the near future.

I did make comment in my first post about their OTP, and them having to make improvements in that area to continue to grow. I just couldn't see investors being willing to keep throwing money at the business if there weren't signs that something was going right.

Mike.....

No, but I have flown with Jetstar and my Tiger reference comes from members of this board I respect

Does that count?


Spend a couple of dollars like others have and try them for yourself, you might be pleasantly surprised. Tiger 12 months ago is vastly different to Tiger today. They are a start-up LCC in a tough environment it was always going to be messy in the earlier days. If I recall correctly other LCC's in this country also had teething issues and weren't all that popular either. JQ was lucky that when they started ops they could push pax onto QF flights to avoid some of the backlash Tiger have received, however in alot of instances, DJ wasn't so lucky.

If you walk into this with the mindset Tiger is awful, you probably won't give yourself the opportunity to develop your own unbiased opinion.

[Mike W]

^ You know, you're right Nick. I need to try them and to be honest, I haven't considered them really as an option. Next time I will.

Cheers

[NickN]

Mike, glad to hear it. I took the step of trying them out of curiosity just to see what would happen, I booked a day trip SYD-MEL on a $79 return fare. I turned up well in advance, check-in was easy and the flight was just like any other. In fact a few weeks after my trip I booked a spontaneous trip for my in-laws to Melbourne for their wedding anniversary and they also had good reviews of Tiger.

I hope you enjoy your flight too when you fly them next.

[Marty H]

Lukas, I read this today :rolleyes:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/tigers-airways-figures-not-specific/story-e6frg8zx-1225826106450

Now when you list your company on a stock exchange, you are liable to your investors to release all details of the business and its profit/loss and operating performance on a monthly basis, already Tiger are with holding information.

[Andrew P]

are liable to your investors to release all details of the business and its profit/loss and operating performance on a monthly basis, already

??? monthly - new one on me,

[NickN]

Try bi-annually or more than likely annually (being compulsory)

normally released by Australian airlines

Doesn't sound like they are required to reveal that information as a compulsory requirement Marty.

The group's two airlines carried 456,000 passengers in December, up 48 per cent on the previous year.

Their load factor rose 7 percentage points to 90 per cent.

Passenger numbers also increased 59 per cent in November and 55 per cent in October.


Appears that growth is strong, load factor seems decent accross the group.

I don't see how Lukas has fed any tripe at all, this was his comment....

A record profit will be posted this April by the group, yet the Aussie ops are losing single figures now. Whilst their Singaporean operation is highly profitable at the moment, they can afford to prop up Tiger Australia which should post a profit next fiscal year.


As far as that reads April will reveal better results for the Australian ops and the group as a whole is quite profitable. He admitted the Asian side is proping up the Aussie side for now. I don't know what more you could expect that sounds reasonable and on par with that is happening.

[Marty H]

??? monthly - new one on me,

QF and DJ report monthly to the ASX.

[Marty H]

Try bi-annually or more than likely annually (being compulsory)



Doesn't sound like they are required to reveal that information as a compulsory requirement Marty.



Appears that growth is strong, load factor seems decent accross the group.

I don't see how Lukas has fed any tripe at all, this was his comment....



As far as that reads April will reveal better results for the Australian ops and the group as a whole is quite profitable. He admitted the Asian side is proping up the Aussie side for now. I don't know what more you could expect that sounds reasonable and on par with that is happening.


Lukas has specifically said Australian operations, you are giving me whole group figures as Tiger wont seperate the Singapore from the Australian operations to somewhat 'sugarcoat' their statement.

[NickN]

Show me a company who doesn't sugarcoat everything made available to the public.

[Lukas M]

I guess you could say that Tiger Australia is now under control, management and financial wise. The airline is run totally different as of what it was back in 08', and things appear to be working and they are on the right track.

Problem at the moment is their limited fleet with small frequencies, whilst they go double daily to Hobart today. They have their eyes on too many routes out of Sydney, yet not enough aircraft in the short term. Avalon could work well if they manage to sqeeze Jetstar out and possibly gain International access out of there in the long term and attract others, turning it into one big Budget Carrier port. Tiger could sustain the services ex Avalon that Jetstar at the moment cant at times, even with the same frequencies.

[Marty H]

So clearly lack of profit is hindering these wild growth plans, plans are all well and good but unless the airline or any business is providing a good level of customer satisfaction (and I have seen plenty of Tiger dis-satisfaction) then the reputation is poor and people are reluctant or wont use that business/airline etc.

Now going back to the article that Tiger are moving all operations to AVV, you havent come back to me on that Lukas, you claim it is a third base for Tiger and say the article is rubbish, you also seem to believe Tiger can 'squeeze' out JQ which is the airline that started out and made AVV an alternate base back in 2005 sorry but this will just stir up the JQ nest and they will now return services to AVV.........................do you really think JQ management are going to let Tiger come in and kick them out of their own established hub???

Tiger may have grand plans but I highly doubt much will come to see the light of day.

[lloyd fox]

Marty, the airline article is telling us they are bringing forward their aircraft deliveries not retreating .

They are soon to start BNE services.You say a lack of profit is hindering their growth plans i cant see that from this article it actually is the opposite.

Tiger offers a alternative to the rest and if you dont like them dont fly them.
I believe they will be here for the longterm .

[Lukas M]

Avalon will be interesting when (if) it happens. Obviously both of them out of Avalon wont really be making much profit on the same routes, AVV-SYD is down to sub $40 most days, even on the same day of departure. Question is, who can last the distance. Have to wait and see I guess...

Taking a punt that Tiger will be flying via their Virtual hubs from AVV to BNE/SYD to build up frequencies on SYD-OOL and SYD-BNE. They might only have 2/3 flights to each of those ports ex Avalon. Eg..
AVV-SYD-ASP-SYD-AVV
AVV-BNE-MKY-BNE-AVV
AVV-SYD-MCY-SYD-AVV
AVV-SYD-OOL-SYD-AVV
AVV-BNE-SYD-BNE-AVV

[Andrew P]

QF and DJ report monthly to the ASX.

no they don't, they may report passenger loads, but don't give profit figures etc monthly

[Marty H]

From that information you can still see how well a company/airline is doing, from the article I quoted they with held information.

[Marty H]

Lukas,

Correct on what your saying about sub $40 fares, now this is the disadvantage of AVV because unless your offering dirt cheap fares (pax have to take in account extra travel costs) your not going to attract passengers, so straight away your hurting your yeilds, sure you may squeeze out JQ but they have a big foothold at MEL so they may say well and good Tiger can have AVV and go bust down there, that is why JQ have slowly pulled out of their because their yeilds are that low, just to attract a passenger to the airport is a task in itself, nobody questions a $70 fare out of MEL because if they were to fly with any other airline that where they have to go anyway, going to AVV is 'going out of your way' so airlines need to compensate.

[Adrian B]

Interestingly, each flight in and out of YMAV in the last 3 months I have been on (4 returns) have been full bar 1 or 2 seats, especially the 6am ymav departure and the 2150 yssy departure. Lots of business people as well.

[Michael Morrison]

I thought JQ pulled out of AVV in preference of MEL to be more competitive with Tiger. If Tiger retreat to AVV, surely JQ are the ones with the upper hand?

[Marty H]

Pretty much Michael as I said in my last post JQ will more than likely let them go and effectively won the battle to 'squeeze' Tiger out of MEL, as I said harder to get good yield out of AVV when you have to discount fares to make AVV attractive.

[Mike W]

Isn't Tiger expanding to Avalon rather than downsizing at Melbourne? If so then it's hardly being "squeezed" out of MEL

[Marty H]

According to the article in this weeks Herald Sun they are leaving MEL and moving all operations to AVV.

[Lukas M]

Isn't Tiger expanding to Avalon rather than downsizing at Melbourne? If so then it's hardly being "squeezed" out of ME
Bingo.
The Herald Sun knows nothing about the deal. Melbourne is not changing, its just they need a place to base all these upcoming arrivals. Melbourne Airport wont take anymore than 6 Tiger A320's, Adelaide might see another aircraft in the future aside from #3 which is VNK floating around now.

For all we know, Melbourne Airport could be working out ways to base 7+ Tiger Aircraft down at T4 to avoid losing business to Avalon while this deal is still kept under wraps. But as Im sure you know Marty, there is seriously not much room overnight anymore Tiger 320's.

[Marty H]

So your saying that the Herald Sun is passing on false information:confused: The media often twist stories to make them seem more dramatic but I highly doubt they are going to make up a whole story.

[Justin L]

Marty,

Time will tell whether Tiger pulls out of MEL completely or not. Lukas M's information on Tiger has been pretty accurate during his time on the board so to me at least his comments are just as valid as the information from the "usually reliable spy" mentioned in the Herald Sun article.