Close Up Action

[Grahame Hutchison]

I was just watching some PlanePlotter high speed close up action over Orange and Parkes in NSW. SQ219 B772 was tracking almost head on to SQ234 B773, with a closing speed of 963kts. There was 5000ft difference in altitude so no problems, however SQ219 turned slightly right over Parkes and was then heading directly for JQ446 A320 which was heading northeast. This time the altitude difference was only 2000ft, and JQ446 was at 468kts. It would have been an interesting view from the cockpit of SQ219.

http://www.16Right.com/MessageBoard/Singapore Flights 01.jpg

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Nice screen shot Grahame as 'b9' is me.

This reminds me of a 'close encounter' in the US back in 1987. We were on a Northwest DC9 flying Memphis-Miami and I had a window seat on the right hand side. During the flight I just happened to notice a 'speck' heading towards us and within seconds it was passing (flashing really) to the right of us at what seemed like maybe a thousand feet higher and a distance of about 500 metres and it too was a DC9 (of Delta). As you say, the approach speeds are incredible.

[Grahame Hutchison]

Hi Peter,

I have had two of these close encounters on commercial flights while visiting the cockpit.

The first was in a Qantas B707 from Sydney to Auckland in 1968. A Pan AM B707 was approaching us head on, just a bit to the left and maybe 1000ft higher. At a closing speed approaching 1000kts the Pan Am B707 went past like a ballistic missile, they were so close I could clearly read and see the colour of the Pan Am titles on the aircraft.

The second one was on a Cathay B777 from Seoul to Hong Kong where I was in the cockpit for all but the takeoff. Half way through the flight we had a B747 approaching absolutely head on (same track) and just 1000ft above. The crew had picked it up on instruments, however I was the first to pick out the speck in the distance. In the blink of an eye the B747 way straight over the top of us, I remember looking up through the cockpit windows to see the full aircraft profile from below.

I have seen a few of these close encounters on PP, usually with just the two aircraft, this was the first time with three.

I am feeding my ACARS data up to PP (live) and am *X

[Noel White]

Grahame, you will see your sharer's code as *X, we would see you as "something X". If you go to PP > Help > About PlanePlotter at the end of the top line you will see your full sharer code which is what other PP users would see.

BTW, overnight Bev released an upgrade PP ver 5.4.7.5.

Also there is some news of a cheap ADS-B receiver which will work with PP.

http://www.radargadgets.com/

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Yep I see your plots which come up as 'oX'; I have 2 pc's and run SBS on one and radarbox on the other where I also supply acars (user kJ).

1000' seperation is standard from what I can see on the Nav charts with odd/even heights established for a/c in opposite directions.

On a slightly different scenario is where a/c 'follow' each other at the same alt. I get the afternoon departures to the west and you have maybe 3 to 4 a/c following each other all at say FL350.

Remember the old 'cliche' that if you were a 747 pilot you didn't want to get 'stuck behind' an A340 as they used to cruise quite a few knots slower.
(I think it was Mach 0.86 for the 747 and 0.82 for the A340 but this was not always the case)

I always remember the 747's requesting a higher/lower altitude so they could 'pass' the A340. It would take a fair while to pass but the ATC comms where interesting to listen to.

[Andrew P]

Remember the old 'cliche' that if you were a 747 pilot you didn't want to get 'stuck behind' an A340 as they used to cruise quite a few knots slower.
(I think it was Mach 0.86 for the 747 and 0.82 for the A340 but this was not always the case)

correct as between HKG & LHR a A340 takes an additional 60 minutes (approx) to get to London

[Mick F]

RVSM (Reduced Vertical Seperation Minima) airspace exists in Australia. Meaning that for approved aircraft, it's 1,000ft vertically, and for non approved aircraft it's 2,000ft vertically.

You may occassionally hear an aicraft request an RVSM level (above FL280) followed by the phrase "Negative RVSM". Simply means they are not approved to operate to RVSM standards, and therefore must be given the 2,000ft clearance at all times.

Mick

[Grahame Hutchison]

I tested out the Cockpit View in Google Earth from Plane Plotter today and the results were quite good. After enabling the Google Earth server in Plane Plotter and pointing Google Earth to a Cockpit View KML file in Plane Plotter, you can select an aircraft in PP and the view from the cockpit will then be displayed in Google Earth. Simply amazing as this is all in real time, here are some screen shots on VH-VZE on approach this afternoon.

http://www.16Right.com/MessageBoard/Qantas VH-VZE 01.jpg

http://www.16Right.com/MessageBoard/Qantas VH-VZE 02.jpg

http://www.16Right.com/MessageBoard/Qantas VH-VZE 03.jpg

http://www.16Right.com/MessageBoard/Qantas VH-VZE 04.jpg

http://www.16Right.com/MessageBoard/Qantas VH-VZE 05.jpg

http://www.16Right.com/MessageBoard/Qantas VH-VZE 06.jpg

http://www.16Right.com/MessageBoard/Qantas VH-VZE 07.jpg

http://www.16Right.com/MessageBoard/Qantas VH-VZE 08.jpg

http://www.16Right.com/MessageBoard/Qantas VH-VZE 09.jpg

[David Ramsay]

... and it landed on the grass. ;)

Great stuff!!

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Nice Grahame; I've tried using Google earth or cockpit view a few times without any success. Will have to read up on it.

Interesting that apart from anything else there's no Control Tower and the spotter-proof fence (on Qantas Drive) is gone!

[Grahame Hutchison]

Peter, I could not get Cockpit View to work when I tried it some time back, but last night I found a forum that said the latest versions of Google Earth do not work with the KML file that comes with PP. They had the KML code you could copy/paste into the PP version. When I did that it worked first time.

The aproaches vary a bit as far as runway centre line is concerned, it just depends on the actual timing of the transmissions received by PP, which simulates the track with the last heading and speed. I have found Tiger to be the most accurate so far, and just followed one into Tullamarine. It landed smack on the centre line and actually turned off the runway on one of the rapids. I just loaded my UK map and followed a few approached into Heathrow, very interesting. There was a Virgin Atlantic A380 at the terminal (Branson having a bit of fun maybe).

This is the code you need in the google_cockpit.kml file which is in the COAA\PlanePlotter folder.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<kml xmlns="http://earth.google.com/kml/2.0">
<Document>
<visibility>1</visibility>
<NetworkLink>
<name>PP2</name>
<flyToView>1</flyToView>
<Url><href>http://127.0.0.1:4180/pp_google.kml</href>
<refreshMode>onInterval</refreshMode>
<refreshInterval>16</refreshInterval>
<viewRefreshMode>never</viewRefreshMode>
</Url>
<refreshVisibility>1</refreshVisibility>
</NetworkLink>
</Document>
</kml>

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Thanks Grahame; this will be fun as the last time I used 'code' was with Q-Basic. No hurry at the moment.

[Grahame Hutchison]

This is the Virgin Atlantic A380 at Heathrow on Google Earty (Sitting on top of a VA A340).

http://www.16Right.com/MessageBoard/VA A380 Heathrow.jpg

[Nigel C]

Looks like a Boeing 380 to me...

[Grahame Hutchison]

I played a bit more with the Google Earth Cockpit View from PlanePlotter this morning, and tried using the "Record A Tour" option in Google Earth. To test this out, I recorded the arrival of QF32 VH-OQA this morning and then played it back as a movie in Google Earth. Initially there were 5 to 6 second pauses in the playback, between each new plot from PlanePlotter. A little bit of editing of the KML code and I removed this delay, however there is still a tiny pause between plots. Reading throught he KML Reference Library to see where this delay comes from (it is almost like chapters on a DVD).

If you Right Click and "Save Target As" on the link below, change the "Save As Type" to All Files (not XML), and then name the file with a .KML extension, you can follow this mornings QF32 approach from the northwest in Google Earth. Just open the file saved from the link.

http://www.16right.com/MessageBoard/PlanePlotter Google Cockpit Views.kml

Next task is to remove the slight pauses between the plots.

[Greg McDonald]

Excuse my ignorance but all I get when I do this is a page of code...

[Grahame Hutchison]

Hi Greg,

If you right click and "Save Target As" on the link below, change the "Save As Type" to ALL (not XML), and then name the file with a KML extension, you can follow this mornings QF32 approach from the northwest in Google Earth. Just open the file saved from the link.


Right Click is the important thing to note, don't just click on the link. You need to get the code you were looking at onto your computer as a KML file so it can be opened in Google Earth. You need to follow the steps above exactly.

[Mike C]

That is so cool.... works great on my mac.

I can even see my house! :D

[James Smith]

I don't think he was going to land on the grass David, but was going round as it looked like there was another aircraft on the runway... or was it Nigel looking for spare parts!

I like the new way they handle congestion on the apron at Heathrow :p

[Greg McDonald]

Must be doing something wrong. I've done exactly as I should have and still get a page of code...