Airports Across UK To Close?

[Ryan N]

Just heard a "breaking news" on Channel 7 saying all airports in the UK will close in 2 hours. Can anyone confirm this?

[Ryan N]

I think I've just answered my own question.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/volcanic-ash-grounds-heathrow-gatwick-flights-in-britain/story-e6frfku0-1225854233663

[Geoff W]

I have only seen this at this point.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/volcanic-ash-grounds-heathrow-gatwick-flights-in-britain/story-e6frf7jx-1225854233663

What a mess?

Kind regards,

Geoff

[Matt D]

An extract from British Airways notification received today 0845UTC :

There was a large volcanic eruption in Iceland on Wednesday April 14.

Due to the weather conditions, a plume of volcanic ash has now spread southwards towards northern Europe and is severely affecting all airlines' flight activity in the area.

For safety reasons and on the direction from Air Traffic Control Service (NATS) a decision has been made to cancel a number of flights and close all London airports.

As a result ALL airlines will be impacted and we will therefore not be able to operate services after 11.30am from London Heathrow, London Gatwick and London City. Additionally, all British Airways domestic services have been cancelled on Thursday 15 April.

You are advised to check the status of your flight before leaving for the airport.

[Geoff W]

From the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8621407.stm

Kind regards,

Geoff

[Michael Cleary]

And from NATS http://www.nats.co.uk/:

Statement on Icelandic volcanic eruption: Thurs April 15, 09:30
From midday today until at least 6pm, there will be no flights permitted in UK controlled airspace other than emergency situations. This has been applied in accordance with international civil aviation policy. We continue to monitor the situation with the Met Office and work closely with airline customers and adjoining countries.

The Ash is apparently up to 55,000 feet.

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

What impact will this have on QF Flights into / Out of LHR?

Will they divert to / operate out of Frankfurt?

Stuart

[Peter Agatsiotis]

I am just looking at PlanePlotter over southern UK (12pm local) and there is only one a/c circling near London. Never seen this before.
From the PP forum looks like the ash system is moving south so flights in Northern UK and other parts of Europe have resumed or will be resuming shortly.

Flights that normally fly 'over' the UK will obviously be directed around the system. Will re-check the PP forum for the latest.

[Robert S]

Latest is now no flights in UK airspace until at least 0700 BST on Friday.

At 2000 BST Thursday they will make a further announcement regarding arrangements through to 1300 BST Friday.

[Michael Morrison]

Yep - most northern countries have their airspace closed and Netherlands and Belgium are closing now. I believe the french ahve just announced Paris airports are also to close.

Check out http://www.flightradar24.com/ for a view of how few flights are flying!

Some are saying it could last a day or so more.

[Kieran Wells]

Check out http://www.flightradar24.com/ for a view of how few flights are flying!


Very Very quiet over Europe now, at 437pm local time in London. Noticed BA flights are all cancelled, so you won't see any BA birds here on Saturday. Does that mean we will see double on Sunday?

Flight radar is struggling by the looks of it with the following message:

Due to an extreme amount of visitors at Flightradar24, we have temporarliy suspended the ability to click on aircrafts (normally shows info (speed etc) and plane trail )

Casper is also looking very sad with no aircraft on it: http://casper.frontier.nl/eham/

Will be interesting to see how this is handled by all involved, and take a few days to catch up.

[Justin L]

Looking across at the tarmac of Las Vegas airport from my office window this morning, the BA 777 which arrives and departs each evening here for LHR is moved back from the terminal at a stand-off bay (centre of attached photo). No doubt halted due to the closed air space.

[Neil Hogbin]

Hi everybody. All UK airports will remain closed until 1300 Friday lunch time. Qantas did manage to get the QF32 and the QF30 out of Heathrow on Thursday by bringing the departure time forward by about an hour, departing just after 11AM local before Heathrow closed at mid-day. I understand that the Qantas flights due to arrive into Heathrow Friday morning are being held in either Singapore or Bangkok with revised arrival times of early evening, but of course that is subject to change as the situation is updated..

[Matt D]

NATS have just announced that all UK airspace will remain closed until at least 1pm British summer time. (that's 26hrs and counting)

[Sarah C]

Amazing impact - mother nature has a lot of control over things, so it will be interesting how "clear" the skies get over the coming hours.

On the news this morning they had the usual whinging passengers, this time complaining about "we don't know whats happened". Every airline is trying to get information and get things organised as quickly as possible.

[Noel White]

If you haven't got PlanePlotter installed, go to this site to see air traffic or the lack of air traffic over the UK. Reminders me of USA on 11 Sept 2001.

http://www.flightradar24.com/

Cheers,

Noel

[Justin L]

The BA 777 in Las Vegas I mentioned in an earlier post has just returned to the terminal and is at the gate. Perhaps trans-Atlantic flights approaching from the west may resume soon as the cloud moves east?

Las Vegas airport website has a press release stating today's (Thursday's) BA flight to LHR and VS's flight to LGW as being cancelled (the incoming flights were both cancelled), but the BA flight currently at the terminal is really Wednesday's delayed flight.

Condor's flight from Las Vegas to Frankfurt is still scheduled to depart this afternoon.

[Dan Hammond]

Hi everyone,

This may be related, Qantas today has cancelled QF9 from MEL to SIN and LHR but QF29 is still scheduled to leave tonight.

Im not 100% sure if the cancellation of QF9 is related but it just may be.

[Malcolm Parker]

All QF and BA flights to LHR and FRA have been cancelled for today

Also EK is not accepting any passengers on its network whose end destination is in Europe as well due to no more transit accommodation available in DXB for today as well.

More to follow I asume.

[Karl M]

Hi everyone,

This may be related, Qantas today has cancelled QF9 from MEL to SIN and LHR but QF29 is still scheduled to leave tonight.

Im not 100% sure if the cancellation of QF9 is related but it just may be.
29 canx as well.

[Matt D]

NATS have extended the closure of UK airspace until at least 16/4 1900 BST (34hrs and counting)

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Just watching the SBS german news which showed a few European airports with all gates full.

In the segment it said that the last time this volcano erupted back in the 1820's it was belching out ash for 2 years!.

To make matters worst, passengers trying to get out of France by train can't because of a French Rail strike.

Looks like all the UK (and Frankfurt) bound flights from yesterday are still at their 'transit' points of Singapore, Bangkok and Hong Kong.

I noticed earlier that Virgin Atlantic had departed to HKG.

5pm statement from Qantas was that UK flights this weekend will probably be cancelled.

Also on PP now is QF31 heading to MEL (VH-OQC)?

[Jason H]

QF5/9/29 have all been cancelled, and yesterday's QF1/5/9/29/31 are all stuck in BKK/SIN/HKG.

Today, QF31, VH-OQC is operating via MEL to SIN only.
QF1, VH-OJH is operating SYD to BKK only

What a clustermug!!

[Peter Agatsiotis]

And now QF1 is airborne so a bit confusing as to why some flights are leaving and not others.

Neither of the BA flights have left (yet).

Latest report from PP is that some flights out of Scotland have departed as well as those from Wales and Ireland but limited number as ATC in different sections assess what flights can take place.

[Matthew H]

Current screenshot from Plane Plotter of Europe.

http://huppatz.com/Images/eurotraffic01-small.png (http://huppatz.com/Images/eurotraffic01.png)
Click to enlarge.

[NeilP]

And now QF1 is airborne so a bit confusing as to why some flights are leaving and not others.

Neither of the BA flights have left (yet).

Latest report from PP is that some flights out of Scotland have departed as well as those from Wales and Ireland but limited number as ATC in different sections assess what flights can take place.

I was on The Mound this afternoon and saw both BA aircraft on the stand-off bays and was surprised to see Virgin Atlantic had already left, and even more surprised to see QF1 depart at 1805...

[Peter Agatsiotis]

On ABC news a Qantas spokesperson stated that they have despatched 2 a/c for Asia bound pax only. That explains QF1 to BKK and QF31 went to MEL to allow Asia bound pax from the 2 MEL flights to SIN.

He also said that they would be bringing back 2 a/c back from Asian ports.

A bit of activity over the UK/Ireland with 2 Aer Lingus A330's US bound and a couple of Thomsonfly a/c arriving at Glasgow and now Manchester.

[Karl M]

I would think that maybe the BA pax in SYD went out on the QF flights, so no need to operate the BA aircraft.
But it would have been asian destination bound pax only.

[SteveW]

Just got back from BNE with some family who were due to travel on EK433 to Dubai then EK009 to London Gatwick. We got to the airport, got told they weren't flying as Emirates have canned UK flights until the 19th.

They gave us the 1300 reservations number and said to call them to rebook flights.

A bit **** poor if you ask me. The chances of getting through on that number given the vast numbers of pax affected is ludicrously small...

[Matt D]

NATS, the UK's equivalent to Air Services Australia, is the best place for updates on the UK airspace situation. http://www.nats.co.uk/index.html

Eurocontrol for mainland Europe: http://www.eurocontrol.int/corporate/public/site_preferences/display_news_list.html

[Michael Morrison]

A bit **** poor if you ask me. The chances of getting through on that number given the vast numbers of pax affected is ludicrously small...

KLM are worse. Am here in the Netherlands and their phone line says sorry - there is a disruption and we will no longer take calls. They have no staff at the airport ticket desks either.... When I called the US number to try and get rebooked I was told that they would not help and would terminate the call as I should call Netherlands instead....argh!:mad:

[Michael Cleary]

A friend of mine is in Barcelona right now, due to leave on SQ377 on Saturday. The opposite flight - SQ378 - is en-route (left an hour late), but stops at Milan on the way - and in the last 30 minutes Sky News is saying that Northern Italy is now closed - though Eurocontrol is silent on that at present, as is SQ.

Depending on how the day progresses, he might be looking at extending his stay in Spain.

[Matt_L]

Although not ideal circumstances- Wouldn't mind being stuck in Barcelona:) One of the most exceptional cities to visit in europe IMHO.

[Maikha Ly]

Hear hear!


I'd hate to begin to imagine the economic impact this airspace closure is having on the UK and the rest of Europe. Know a few people who are heading to the UK soon, and thought the British Airways strike was the thing to worry about!

[NeilP]

Although not ideal circumstances- Wouldn't mind being stuck in Barcelona:) One of the most exceptional cities to visit in europe IMHO.

As a spotter, I wouldn't mind being stuck in one of those busy European Airports with all the aircraft standing still!

[Nigel C]

Go to Mojave Desert if you want lots of aircraft standing still...

[Michael Cleary]

Now ENAC (Italian CAA) have closed Northern Italian Airspace up to 35000ft from 0800 to 1400 today - though given that is in the future who knows what might happen.

SQ378 is showing an ETA of 0728 in Milan - so if it gets in, it will no doubt stay there for a while.

Meanwhile, the Railways in affected areas are no doubt enjoying 100% occupancy as well as ferries to and from the UK.

[Jason H]

Meanwhile, the Railways in affected areas are no doubt enjoying 100% occupancy as well as ferries to and from the UK.

Let's not forget the hotels! :D

[SteveW]

Well, they got through finally to Emirates and have been told it will be May 1 *at the earliest* they fly back. But, that's only a guess as they can't actually book anything until Monday morning.

They were also told they could ring up every day and keep checking for a seat, but it could end up being later.

Makes it a nightmare for my nieces schooling and also the adults loss of work / money.

I checked Qantas' website this morning and they have heaps of info on what flights got cancelled etc. and it states they 'will try to contact all affected customers'. Emirates website on the other hand still doesn't show the flights as cancelled and we were allowed to check-in online for both sectors without any warning. Thankfully, I only live 20 minutes drive from BNE, but imagine the poor buggers who drove for an hour or two having checked out of a hotel...

[Anthony T]

Can't Emirates get them as far as somwhere like Athens or Vienna?

If so your family could hire a car or maybe take the train onwards from there.

Just a thought.

Anthony T

[Philip Argy]

Who's to say the volcano is going to stop any time soon? It could keep erupting on and off for weeks, months or even years. Methinks someone had better come up with plan B real soon!

Is it feasible to increase FLs to go over the volcanic ash cloud or does it go above FL400? Or does even a short ascent and descent through the cloud result in flameout or engine and windscreen damage??

[Bob C]

Hi Philip

I think the ash has risen to at least 20,000 metres and a report I heard on the radio yesterday mentioned that the last time the volcano erupted (in the 19th century) it spewed ash intermittently for two years.

And a report in "The West Australian" today had an interview with a couple who were aboard the BA flight which flew through volcanic ash near Indonesia in 1982 on its way from Kuala Lumpur to Perth. All four engines stopped and the pilot had to put the B747 into a steep dive to restart the engines.

Thankfully they did and the aircraft landed safely in Jakarta.

Apparently the aircraft was only in the volcanic cloud for a short time so by the sounds of things you just don't go anywhere near them.

[Robert S]

Thankfully they did and the aircraft landed safely in Jakarta.

Land safely it did - this is despite the windscreen being opaque thanks to effectively being sandblasted and similarly the landing lights were badly impacted. They could not even taxi off the runway by themselves, had to get a tow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9

The captain of that flight is still around to talk to the media today, which of course he has been doing.

http://news.google.com/news/search?q=Eric+Moody

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8623210.stm
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/04/15/iceland.flights.pilot.story/?hpt=C2

"I don't know how thick this ash is, but I wouldn't go anywhere near it," Moody said of the ash from a volcano in Iceland causing flight cancellations across Europe.

[Robert S]

UK Met Office Volcanic Ash Advisory Centre
http://metoffice.com/aviation/vaac/index.html

Issued Graphics:
http://metoffice.com/aviation/vaac/vaacuk_vag.html

See also - Icelandic Met Office
http://en.vedur.is/

Eruption Flyby:
http://en.vedur.is/about-imo/news/2010/nr/1877

[damien b]

Speaking to a friend in Southern Portugal, they are receiving some extra flights into Faro and Lisbon (mainly charter) as they are well south of the ash cloud. People are then able catch trains into Spain and France. Spain, Portugal and Southern France may well be viable ports into Europe if this continues for some time - just means flying over Africa and not through Europe.

I did see a report on sky news that suggested areas like Russia, Japan and even northern USA and Canada may be affected by the cloud as it moves around the globe in coming days/weeks.

If it does behave like it did in 1820, maybe ocean liners will make a return at least on the atlantic runs? :D

This is from the Eurocontrol web site.

As of 18:12 CET on 16 April 2010, EUROCONTROL has the following update to make with regard to the situation of air traffic in Europe:

16 Apr 2010
EUROCONTROL expects around between 10,000 and 11,000 flights to take place today in European airspace. On a normal day, we would expect 28,000. Yesterday, 15 April, there were 20,334 flights.


Airspace is currently not available for operation of civilian aircraft in the following countries/areas: most part of the UK (excluding Scotland), Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, southern parts of Sweden and Norway, Finland, Estonia, the north of France including all Paris airports, most parts of Germany, parts of Poland including Warsaw airport and the Czech Republic. Geneva and Vienna will also be closing later on today.

Approximately 600 trans-Atlantic flights take place each day, 300 in each direction. Of the 300 flights that would usually arrive in Europe, today between 100 and 120 arrived in Europe.

Forecasts suggest that the cloud of volcanic ash is continuing to move east and south-east and that the impact will continue for at least the next 24 hours

[Robert S]

Spain, Portugal and Southern France may well be viable ports into Europe if this continues for some time

The current Met Office predictions appear to suggest all of France will be out. Looks more to be like just Spain, Portugal and perhaps Rome at the moment. Of course the infrastructure (airports, ground transport) will limit how much you can get out of this.

I wonder how badly BA is going to be hit by all of this - will also be interesting to see where this leaves the cabin crew dispute.

[Michael Cleary]

And it now looks like SQ378 may be operating direct to Barcelona - the Flight Status has now eliminated Milan and has it arriving in Barcelona an hour ahead of the Scheduled time.

Assuming there is a crew to operate SQ377, it will be interesting to see whether they delay it until Milan is open again, or do the return direct as well. Direct would probably be good for the passengers too - no doubt lots of empty seats with no Milan stop.

Edit at 15:30 - have to love the live flight tracking as http://www.flightradar24.com/ shows SQ378 at FL370 just west of Corsica now.

[NeilP]

Go to Mojave Desert if you want lots of aircraft standing still...

Thanks for the tip Nigel, but I reckon Heathrow (and Gatwick) would be more appealing at present!!

[Lee G]

Have a thought if one of the Indonesian volcanoes was to let go in the near future ... how would that affect Australian Airspace? Would we see the same mass shutdown as Europe?:eek:

[Anthony T]

Hi there

Ryanair have cancelled 1,162 flights for saturday 17/04, they are allowing rebooking at no extra charge.

Is it Mick's birthday or Irish new year, because Ryanair would normally say tough ****, not our problem. :p

Anthony T

[Lee G]

Anyone who has doubts about the effect of volcanic ash on aircraft engines should read this ... looks like they closed the airspace in time.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/04/16/340727/pictures-finnish-f-18-engine-check-reveals-effects-of-volcanic.html

And this could just be the beginning of years of disruption .....

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18786-get-ready-for-decades-of-icelandic-fireworks.html

[Michael Cleary]

And SQ377 from Barcelona has now been cancelled (SQ378 made it in) - SMS message from my friend, they checked in at around 0800 for a scheduled 1025 departure, told to return at 0930 for an update, which was then to return at 1130 for a further update at which the advice was cancelled until tomorrow. SQ is putting them up in Hotels for the night.

[Philip Argy]

Have a thought if one of the Indonesian volcanoes was to let go in the near future ... how would that affect Australian Airspace? Would we see the same mass shutdown as Europe?

I stand to be corrected but I believe there is neglible cross-equatorial wind flow, and the proverbial doldrums prevail in countries that straddle the equator like Indonesia. On that basis I don't think Australian airspace would be affected in the way that Europe has been blanketed by the Icelandic volcanic ash.

[Lee G]

I believe there is neglible cross-equatorial wind flow

Philip, I'm not sure about the cross-equatorial wind flow, but I do remember when Mt Pinatubo in the Philippines blew back in the late 80's (from memory) and at that time I lived in Perth. We had the most amazing sunsets over the Indian Ocean from the volcanic ash and dust generated from the eruption.

[Philip Argy]

As I understand things, Lee, volcanic dust from the Philippines could not affect a Perth sunset, so I'd love to know how that phenomenon came about.

[Michael Cleary]

I had a call from my friend in Barcelona late last night, who told me the story of SQ378/377.

Apparently the crews normally change in Milan in both diretions, so with SQ378 having overflown Milan, there was of course no crew in Barcelona - and of course no prospect of flying the crew stranded in Milan (or aywhere else for that matter) in.

So, the crew get 24 hours to rest in Barcelona and at 0950 local time on Sunday, SQ377 departs direct to Singapore. The initial routing might be interesting due to Airspace closures.

Meanwhile, SQ has supplied all the non local passengers with accommodation in a 4 Star Hotel in the Montjuic area, all hotel meals and 10 minutes of International Phone calls. Well done SQ.

[Karl M]

As I understand things, Lee, volcanic dust from the Philippines could not affect a Perth sunset, so I'd love to know how that phenomenon came about.

I remember when one of the Indonesian Volcano's went off in the late 80's or early 90's we had great sunsets in Melbourne!
So there must be a reason!

[Andrew P]

As I understand things, Lee, volcanic dust from the Philippines could not affect a Perth sunset, so I'd love to know how that phenomenon came about.

However, it did affect those in Manila, I was stuck there for a week. Life was hard in those days :D

[Nathan Long]

This song is probably appropriate right now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvuL5jyCHOw

[Anthony T]

Hi there

There are still a few flights in the UK, the Isle of Wight hovercraft is still operating. :D

The disruption also forced the cancellation of the inaugural Iraqi Airways flight from Baghdad to London.

This is an inaugrual flight I am happy to miss. :-)

Anthony T

[Michael Cleary]

Now its Spain's turn - airports in Northern Spain have now been closed until 16:00 local time Sunday.

SQ377 passengers were about to board when the news was communicated.

[D Chan]

This song is probably appropriate right now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvuL5jyCHOw

better not play this song at the airport!

[Ryan P]

Interesting,

European airlines are continuing to run test flights to assess possible damage to jet engines caused by the volcanic ash cloud that has grounded services.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8628034.stm

[Michael Morrison]

All credit to BA & Virgin on this one. They have been very quick to cancel flights the day before. Ie both have already cancelled all flights tomorrow.

In contrast, KLM seem to be more optimistic... they only now just cancelled this evenings flights... They also ask people NOTto turn up at the airport, but what do you do if your flight is at 7pm and at 6pm it still shows as flying!!!

[Neil Hogbin]

British Airways have sent up a 747-400 test flight over the uk leaving Heathrow just after 18.00 local. Understand a certain Mr Willy Walsh was on board. Aircraft used was G-CIVC and is due to land in Cardiff for engineers to inspect the engines after the 90 minute flight.
The two Qantas 747's at Heathrow since Thursday morning are VH-OJG and OJS.

[Ash W]

All credit to BA & Virgin on this one. They have been very quick to cancel flights the day before. Ie both have already cancelled all flights tomorrow.


Have just arrived back in the UK from Amsterdam. Was due to leave on Thursday, so only 3 days late. Came back on a ferry, which I booked Friday morning. All the ferries from Amsterdam are booked until Wednesday at the earliest. Quite a pleasant day to sail actually!

Interesting you mention BA, something I found a tad odd was when my first flight was canceled I received an SMS, I then had the option to rebook the flight. However the 2nd flight never actually showed up as being canceled despite the fact that it clearly was canceled. So if I had just used my booking as a guide I would have assumed it was actually flying.

[Joseph Saragozza.]

what would the airlines do with their planes while they are stuck on the ground?

[Dan Hammond]

Hi Joseph,

Some photos have popped up on airliners.net of the aircraft sitting on the ground and from what i could see in them aircraft have been moved to stand off areas and engine covers have been put on.

Some other board members may have some more detailed info on this

[Joseph Saragozza.]

thanks dan, i too have seen those images.
i mainly referring to weather or not the airlines will insure their planes will be in tip top shape mechanically and in appearance?

[Robert S]

Aircraft used was G-CIVC

At 16+ years, that isn't the oldest in the fleet by any chance? You know, if they had to write it off... :confused:

EDIT: Nope... scrub that, according to http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/British%20Airways-active-b747.htm, their active 744 fleet is between and 11 and 20 years old. :rolleyes:

[Matt D]

Regarding Compensation.

Under EU law (regulation 261) all EU carriers are required to provide hotels and 3 meals a day to any passenger delayed. There is no 'act of God' clause in the legislation and therefore it is hotly disputed by airlines.

An example provided this morning by the CEO of Monarch Airlines (UK charter company. On a GBP60 fare Monarch to Spain, Monarch is liable for ~GBP250/day in expenses on top of normal airlines costs. Multiply this by thousands of pax and costs blow out massively.

Apparently applies to :
.. non-EU carriers for pax inside the EU.
.. EU carriers wherever the pax are

Not applicable to non-EU carriers for pax outside the EU travelling to the EU.

[Nigel C]

As I understand things, Lee, volcanic dust from the Philippines could not affect a Perth sunset, so I'd love to know how that phenomenon came about.

Check Wiki and Mt Pinatubo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Pinatubo Pictures are there apparently taken over South America by NASA showing some of the effects.

[Kieran Wells]

This might seem like a bit of a stupid question. Does anyone know if Virgin Atlantic are just flying Sydney - Hong Kong at the moment? It has said every day that the flight has departed.. Just a tad confused, since BA have both of their birds parked here in Sydney, and i haven't had a chance in the last few days to pop by and see if VS was there too..

[Dan Hammond]

Hi Kieran,

The following is from the VS website:

Flights between Hong Kong and Sydney are currently scheduled to be operating as normal however passengers from Sydney with a connection on to London should not travel to Hong Kong until London flights have reopened.

[Michael Cleary]

And the twice delayed SQ377 finally departed Barcelona at 0320 local on Monday, arriving in Singapore at 2127 local.

As to compensation mentioned above, the passengers didnt have to spend a cent from the time of initial check in at Barcelona on Saturday morning. SQ found and paid for Hotels, all meals, telephone calls, transport to and from. Must have cost the Airline a packet...and thats just one flight.

Seems these passengers were lucky, they actually got out and were well looked after by SQ.

[Justin L]

Regarding Compensation.

Under EU law (regulation 261) all EU carriers are required to provide hotels and 3 meals a day to any passenger delayed. There is no 'act of God' clause in the legislation and therefore it is hotly disputed by airlines.

Apparently applies to :
.. non-EU carriers for pax inside the EU.
.. EU carriers wherever the pax are

Not applicable to non-EU carriers for pax outside the EU travelling to the EU.

Stranded German tourists interviewed on local Las Vegas news here last night who have bookings with BA stated they were receiving accommodation and meals and their level of treatment from the airline was much higher than their expectations. Must be thanks to this EU law mentioned by Matt D.

[Neil Hogbin]

Scottish airspace is due to open from 0700Local Tuesday followed by more UK and european airspace during the day as the forcast shows the ash moving away. Also the volcano has been far more stable during the last 24 hours with eruptions far less violent. British Airways are planning to operate as many long haul departures leaving Heathrow after 1600 as possible, and selected short hauls from 1800.
Virgin are also expecting to operate some of there long hauls out of Heathrow Tuesday night.
British Airways are planning operating some inbounds to Heathrow including the Tuesday afternoon departures from Sydney and the displaced aircraft in Asian ports. Wonder if Qantas will operate OJG and OJS back tomorrow night?

[Michael Morrison]

Just had a few flights leave AMS with pax onboard going to DXB, PVG and JFK.

[Kieran Wells]

Hi Kieran,

The following is from the VS website:

Thanks Dan,I must admit i did have a quick look at the VS website, but didn't see anything. It jus had a whole lot of *'s next to certain flights(and the SYD-HKG) was one..

[Justin L]

The BA flight from LAS-LHR (stranded in LAS from Apr-14 local) is now back at the gate and is scheduled for departure at 1.40am early Tuesday morning Apr-20 (late Monday night Apr-19) Las Vegas time. This is operating as the usual BA274 flight for Monday with scheduled departure time of 8.40pm, but no doubt pushed back to 1.40am due to backlog and/or air space reopening timing factors.

[Malcolm Parker]

now that FRA is open, I do not see why QF5/6 can't fly, or are they being too cautious if it has to close again, with this new ash cloud that has just depveloped after the volcano has exploded again.

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

I dare say that QF are being cautious at the moment, given it would be at least 20 hours of flying + stopover time before they get there.
Also what alt. airports could QF get into if FRA was to close again mid flight?
They don't fly ER's into Europe, so they are limited on Range.

I dare say there last possible alt airport would be Mumbai.

Stuart

[Ash W]

British Airways are planning operating some inbounds to Heathrow including the Tuesday afternoon departures from Sydney and the displaced aircraft in Asian ports. Wonder if Qantas will operate OJG and OJS back tomorrow night?

Not any more. Just heard on the radio news that Heathrow is expected to to be closed all day today due to more volcanic activity.

Also you have to remember that even if Heathrow did open, it doesn't mean the airspace Qantas would fly to Australia would be open.

[Ash W]

now that FRA is open, I do not see why QF5/6 can't fly, or are they being too cautious if it has to close again, with this new ash cloud that has just depveloped after the volcano has exploded again.

Have a look at the map in this link: I think it might explain why flights are still canceled even if some airports are open.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8625813.stm

[Michael Mak]

My PlanePlotter is showing QF9 has departed MEL and just crossed South Australia's border.

Does the plane turn around in Singapore and fly back to Australia? VS does the same with VS201/200, SYD-HKG-SYD operates as per schedule but the LHR leg is cancelled.

[Dan Hammond]

Hi Michael,

From the Qantas website in regards to QF9

Qantas will continue to operate scheduled services between Australia and Asian destinations on 19 Apr and 20 Apr as follows:

* QF1 will operate Sydney to Bangkok as scheduled.
* QF31 will operate Sydney to Singapore as scheduled.
* QF9 will operate Melbourne to Singapore as scheduled.
* QF29 will operate Melbourne to Hong Kong as scheduled.
* QF5 Sydney to Singapore has been cancelled however all passengers will be accommodated on the scheduled QF31 service.

from there the aircraft does turn around and return as QF10 to MEL with the LHR service remaining cancelled at this stage.

[Michael Mak]

Thanks Dan.

[Neil Hogbin]

Scottish airspace is open at the moment,but likely to be closed again at 1300 Tues local time due to a further ash cloud. Manchester airport is hoping to open around 1900 this evening and Cardiff around lunch time. No sign of Heathrow and Gatwick opening before this evening if at all. Restrictions on flights operating above 20,000 feet crossing the UK between 1300 and 1900 have also been lifted. HMS Albion is in Santander in Spain and transporting some stranded british tourists back home. HMS Ark Royal is also being sent to the channel ports to help out also.

[Michael Morrison]

Lots of activity at AMS today - KL seem to be getting most of their Intercontinenetal flights away.

[Neil Hogbin]

BBC Lunch Time News reports 12 British Airways flights to Heathrow scheduled to arrive after 1900 local. BA 84 from Vancouver, BA274 from Las Vegas, BA282 From Los Angeles, BA198 from Mumbi, BA006 From Tokyo, BA10 from Bangkok are all now showing on arrival boards at Heathrow.

[Michael Morrison]

BBC Lunch Time News reports 12 British Airways flights to Heathrow scheduled to arrive after 1900 local. BA 84 from Vancouver, BA274 from Las Vegas, BA282 From Los Angeles, BA198 from Mumbi, BA006 From Tokyo, BA10 from Bangkok are all now showing on arrival boards at Heathrow.

These will likely have to divert elsewhere as LHR is now closed until at least 0100GMT

[Ash W]

Was just watching traffic around Amsterdam on the website below and saw BA124 from Bahrain show on the screen. Then checked the BA website and sure enough it is scheduled to land in Brussels at 8pm. It shows leaving Brussels tomorrow morning, but doubt that will happen. Oddly the website below shows it heading to Amsterdam and judging by the path it is taking it looks like it is headed to Amsterdam rather than Brussels.


http://casper.frontier.nl/

[Neil Hogbin]

All UK Airports open from 2200 Local Tonight. British Airways had 26 long haul flights bound for Heathrow, two had to divert to Shannon, and two to Brussels.The rest will land at Heathrow from 2200 and they are even going to try to get some long hauls out tonight. The curfew at Heathrow will also be lifted tonight to allow operations throughout the night. Wonder if the Qantas birds will head south for home tomorrow??

[Steve Bottom]

To days Cairns / Darwin / Singapore service JQ-57 was operated by an A321 rather than the A320 normally on the run , could be part of the extra seats needed to get folks to Europe

Aircraft was VH-VWY

[Ryan N]

Channel 7 News mentioned the first flight to take off to Europe from Sydney was SQ222.

[Michael Cleary]

Ryan, as usual the press have it wrong - or at least inaccurate - for SQ222 only goes as far as Singapore - not just today, but always. Going beyond Singapore involves a change of Aircraft and Flight No - SQ322 (which SQ do have showing as departing SIN at 2330) is a common connecting flight for those going to London.

All the SQ flights from Singapore to Europe and VV are usually in the SQ3** Flight number range, the exceptions being those that continue on to the USA.

[Grahame Hutchison]

Things start moving fairly quickly ....

It was a little quieter further north, but also busy down towards Israel and Gibraltar (the Green Circles are A319s)

http://www.16right.com/MessageBoard/Planeplotter%20Europe%2002.jpg

[Michael Rychter]

Looks like the first QF flight due out of London (QF32 21Apr) after the Ash shutdown was delayed nearly 10 hours from it's "scheduled" departure.

The expected departure was 12:05 - actual departure 22:00.

Does anyone know the reason for the delayed departure? I presume there would have been a scramble for flights to get out of LHR and it would be interesting to know what delayed these first passengers.

[Neil Hogbin]

Not sure why the delay of QF32 now re-numbered QF8032. Due now to depart at 2200 local. The other re-positoning flight QF30 renumbered to QF8030 was also due away at 1220 but was then cancelled. I dont think QF30 usually operates on Wednesdays at the moment. Heathrow departure boards now show an extra flight for Thursday. QF8002 is due to depart at 0850 to Singapore and Sydney. Guess this will be operated with the plane left from todays cancelled flight. Maybe there was not enough time to inform enough passengers for two flights today. All 4 Qantas inbounds to Heathrow for Thursday are due more or less on time. Did BA operate out of Sydney on Wednesday afternoon as nothing showing for the BA10 or 16 arriving this end in the morning??

[Jayden Laing]

Yes Neil, BA did operate out of Sydney yesterday afternoon. I saw the BA777 & BA747's over at the International Terminal. Not sure when the BA747 left but the 777 departed about 6pm last night

[Daniel F]

According to this article, the Qantas flights didn't depart London due to issues with CASA.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/cautious-qantas-refuses-to-fly/story-e6frfq80-1225856689759

[Arthur T]

Hopefully the stranded passengers can get home by this ANZAC Day weekend.
Meanwhile, to speed up passengers movement and to avoid quota imposed on crowded airports such as LHR, is there any chance that flights to London (as well as other major cities) can use other airports instead, such as STN? I think STN should be less crowded than LHR where simply scrap those budget carriers in service until all premium carriers finishes their job would be reasonable.

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

Did OJS depart or is she still stuck at LHR?

Stuart

[Daniel F]

I think STN should be less crowded than LHR where simply scrap those budget carriers in service until all premium carriers finishes their job would be reasonable.

What a load of nonsense! Why should premium carriers be given priority over budget carriers? And think about all the chaos it would cause with passengers confused about which airport they should be going to.

[Paul McFarlane]

I think STN should be less crowded than LHR where simply scrap those budget carriers in service until all premium carriers finishes their job would be reasonable.

Yet another ridiculous statement to add to your collection! :rolleyes:

What about the passengers on those budget carriers (both stranded and currently booked); by scrapping their services you are only adding to the problem of a backlog of passengers.

Somedays I wonder if you are taking the mickey here, but the concerning thing is that I think that you are deadly serious!:rolleyes:

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Not sure which a/c got canned but one of the 2 due in SYD tomorrow morning.

Just now VH-OJA is heading out to SIN/BKK? as QF6004 presumably to help bring back pax to SYD. No details on acars.

[Ian Nicholls]

QF32 left Heathrow at 2337 local on 21/4 VH-OJS

Arriving into Heathrow 22/4 am are:

QF9 VH-OJU, QF31 VH-OEH and QF1 VH-OJC. This
should mean VH-OJF on QF5 into FRA.

No indications of any extra flight leaving LHR today
so unclear when VH-OJG is scheduled out.

[Jason H]

VH-OJT will be operating into LHR as QF9, VH-OJU will arrive on the morning of 23/4. Also, VH-OJP will arrive as QF29.

VH-OJA, I believe, will be operating the QF6 tonight SIN-SYD only, arriving back into SYD tomorrow morning

[Ash W]

Hopefully the stranded passengers can get home by this ANZAC Day weekend.

How pray tell would you do that? I mean to say think of the number of people that have been effected by the Qantas alone.

Here are some sum's, of course making some assumptions to illustrate.

Qantas has about 4 flights a day to London, with a capacity of 400 passengers. Assuming a 80% load factor that is 320x4=1280 people effected each day. This has gone on for about 7 days, which makes about 8960 people delayed.

Even if you flew in empty aircraft it would take 23 aircraft of around 400 seats to bring that many people back. Where do you think Qantas or anyone else is going to find that many aircraft?

Now of course as I said I made some worst case sconario assumptions but the bottom line is it will take weeks, not several days to get everyone home and things back to normal.

[Steve Crook]

A friend of mine was leading a small tour group from Germany. They were transitting Sydney on their way back to Germany when flights were suspended on the first day of the airspace closure. Qantas did a great job and put them up at hotels and kept them informed. Even so, at this stage, some may get on a flight to Germany on April 26th, with the remainder being advised that they will be travelling on May 10th. They are being advised that they MIGHT get on an earlier flight but the 10th is more likely.

[Robert S]

Somedays I wonder if you are taking the mickey here, but the concerning thing is that I think that you are deadly serious!:rolleyes:

I don't really care which of those it is with that person, but this board does have an Ignore User function, which works well when people don't quote the person. Just view the person's profile, click on User Lists, then Add to Ignore List.

The budget airlines are working just as hard as anyone to get people home and amongst other measures are putting on extra flights and that was indeed, as you said, yet another totally ludicrous comment.

[Montague S]

Hopefully the stranded passengers can get home by this ANZAC Day weekend.

I think STN should be less crowded than LHR where simply scrap those budget carriers in service until all premium carriers finishes their job would be reasonable.

yes, because Anzac day is on all of their minds, I think the only thing you have on your mind is LCC and spouting out your vitriol!

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Looks like one of the first 'extra' flights has departed.
VH-OJM is currently operating QF171 to Singapore and may continue to London or Frankfurt (not sure at this stage) or just terminate at Singapore and bring stranded pax from there.
I'd imagine any flights originating in London or Frankfurt would be close to full and would be unable to take extra pax from Singapore (or Bangkok).

Shall wait and see what other flights take place over the coming days. From memory, the news reported 3 extra flights but couldn't remember for how long.

[Daniel F]

Info about the extra flights is here: http://www.qantas.com.au/agents/dyn/qf/info/201004/0417

QF171 is going to Singapore and then onto Frankfurt.

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

QF 158 is currently in Sinagpore from LHR.inbound for SYD.

She is due at 0710.

I believe this is an extra Flight from LHR.

Rego of Aircraft and Type please.

Stuart

[Wenglock M]

Stuart,

QF158 is operated by VH-OJG... should be due into SYD at 0715 tomorrow morning at this stage.

Wenglock.

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Just checked my SBS log and VH-OJG came in about an hour ago as QF32!
Regular flights QF2 (OEH) and QF6 (OJF) arrived earlier.

[Grahame Hutchison]

VH-OEH QF0002 24/04/2010 04:57 Qantas B747-438(ER) London-Bangkok-Sydney
VH-OJF QF0006 24/04/2010 05:00 Qantas B747-438 Frankfurt-Singapore-Sydney
VH-OJG QF0032 24/04/2010 06:55 Qantas B747-438 London-Singapore-Sydney

It will be interesting to see how QF slot in extra services.

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Yes, will be interesting.
Thought they would have made better use of the A380's - extra capacity + add a few extra seats!
OQC was on my log but no flight details.

[Grahame Hutchison]

The Sydney Airport International Departures board is now showing the QF European flights for today as :-

QF319 . Singapore-London .. 15:30
QF5 ... Frankfurt ......... 15:50 VH-OJE
QF31 .. Singapore-London .. 16:15 VH-OQC
QF301 . Bangkok-London .... 16:40
QF1 ... Bangkok-London .... 17:00 VH-OJF tracking out via Bilpin at FL160 then east of MDG at FL300
QF155 . Singapore ......... 22:00

The International Arrivals for QF European flights today are :-

QF6 ... Frankfurt ......... 05:10 VH-OJF
QF320 . London-Signapore .. 05:30 (VH-OJG arrived as QF32 on ACARS approaching around 06:55 - does not seem to match the board)
QF2 ... London-Bangkok .... 05:14 VH-OEH
QF302 . London-Bangkok .... 06:27
QF158 . London-Singapore .. 07:19
QF32 .. London-Singapore .. 19:00 VH-OJU

[Wenglock M]

I (am guessing, but correct me if I'm wrong) the ACARS system for VH-OJG probably did not have the correct flight number - there was a QF32 for yesterday (23/4) from Singapore operated by VH-OJC, which arrived in the evening. There is another QF32 from Singapore today (24/4) which is arriving this evening operated by VH-OJU. There can't have been another QF32 arriving in the morning, and hence, I deduce that VH-OJG was really operating the QF158.

Yep... I think there is a bit of a discrepancy going on with the flight board presumably because these are unusual times...

Wenglock.

[Grahame Hutchison]

You are probably correct, as my ACARS usually picks up the flights 20-30 minutes out. This would make VH-OJG as QF158 about right time wise.

[Michael Cleary]

Those QF301 / 302 / 319 / 320 flights are not actually QF metal - they are the codeshares on BA10 / 9 / 16 / 15.

It seems SQ have a few spare Aircraft (and crews) - for they are operating a heap of extras to/from London, Manchester, Frankfurt and Zurich over the next few days.

BA meanwhile dont seem to have any extra flights to/from Sydney.

[Grahame Hutchison]

Thanks Michael, there was nothing on ACARS for these flights so I thought there must be another reason.

[D Chan]

FYI - Channel 7 is now showing a replay of the Air Crash Investigations episode on the BA 009 that flew through volcanic ash now

[Neil Hogbin]

Parts of Irish airspace will be closed Tuesday due to volcanic ash. Shannon and Dublin airports are likely to be closed.

[Philip Argy]

If only jet engines are susceptible to flame out, why can't propellor driven aircraft fly near volcanic ash clouds? Is it only the windscreen abrasion that makes it dangerous for them or are there air intake clogging vulnerabilities with piston engines as well?

What about rotary winged aircraft?

I'm just curious that air space shutdown seems to be the step taken rather than grounding of susceptible aircraft - are there really no aircraft with the ability to fly safely through volcanic ash. or is it that we're not sure so no-one's willing to take the risk?

I wonder if any wind tunnel testing has been (or is planned to be) done with volcanic ash to explore options in case this volcano in Iceland is going to continue erupting for months or years.

[Ryan N]

Heathrow and Gatwick airports closed at the moment.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/volcanic-ash-cloud-londons-heathrow-airport-closes-20100517-v6to.html?autostart=1

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Phew...look like I just got out of there in time!

[Neil Hogbin]

Heathrow and Gatwick were closed until at least 0700 today. QF9 (A380)diverted to Dubai and will be there all day today due to crew hours. QF1 and 31 diverted to Frankfurt and then made the short hop across to heathrow around 0900. The outbound QF32 has been rescheduled from 1205 today to 1000 tomorrow morning. No info yet on this evening departures but at the moment there is a restriction of 30 aircraft movements per hour while the ash is still around.

[Laurent Sanhard]

interesting doco now on channel 2 - foreign correspondent , as to whether or not the decision to close airports was an over reaction