Question re: curfew and Daylight savings

[Geoff Leff]

Hi all,

Normally I see flights heading inbound to YSSY starting at around 5:45am just prior to the curfew being lifted. However, when we set the clocks back an hour, some flights would show up at 4:45am. How does the curfew work? I'm assuming it's always 6am? Do these flights that arrive early get fined?

[Nigel C]

During daylight savings:
Limited flights can arrive without penalty between 0500 and 0600...typically Qantas QF2 and QF6, British BA15, and the early Singapore SQ221.

Outside of daylight savings, no flights can arrive before 0600.

[Geoff Leff]

Ahh.. that makes sense.. thanks.

[Jason H]

Wouldn't that be, during daylight savings no flights can arrive before 0600??

Currently, flights are arriving at 5am

[Geoff Leff]

That was my point.. I thought it was 6am regardless of whether DST was in effect. But it makes sense that some flights are allowed. That's probably what i'm seeing. The flights are always Qantas, British Airways etc.

[Zac M]

I thought it was 6pm regardless etc.
No arrivals till 6pm could make things interesting... lol, I couldn't help myself I just had to point your typo out to you! :D

[Geoff Leff]

Woops.. hehe.. corrected.

[Rory D.]

The 0500-0559 arrivals must also land 34L with min reverse thrust.

And to be pedantic, there's just one S in "daylight saving time"

[Gerald A]

The number of International aircraft allowed to land on any day of the week between 5am-6am is 4.

The number of International aircraft allowed to land in a given week is 35.

This info dates back to about mid 1990s, and could still be in force. ???

[Matt D]

For those who love the detail. Here (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/ActCompilation1.nsf/0/50B7217FD3999790CA257204000CED2F/$file/SydneyAirportCurfew1995WD02.pdf) is the Act.

[Geoff Leff]

That's a very interesting read.. thanks for that.

I still personally think it's ridiculous that somewhere like Sydney has a curfew at all.

[Tim B]

A while ago I caught the red-eye from Perth to Sydney, and the plane did not depart until it was given a landing slot at Sydney after 6am.
The crew then had to calculate wind direction and speed, to work out flying time to Sydney and not have to do circle work waiting to land.
This made the scheduled 10:30pm departure time actually closer to 11:45pm.

[Philip Argy]

Is someone on Daylight Saving or what?


ATIS ATIS YSSY H 081225
+ APCH:
+ RWY: 34L FOR ARRS. RWY 16R FOR DEPS
+ OPR INFO: SYDNEY DELIVERY FREQ 133.8.
CURFEW RWY NOMINATION,
CURFEW IN OPERATION UNTIL TIME 2 0 0 0

[Jason H]

It always says curfew until 2000 i believe, without the mention of the 5am handful of flights.

I also found this definition in the curfew act quite amusing:

an aircraft means any machine or craft that can derive support in the
atmosphere from the reactions of the air.

[Philip Argy]

I agree it showed the curfew as being in operation until 6 am, but my point was that ATIS showed that status at 10.25 pm - a good 35 mins early

[Jason H]

oh right, yeah that's weird. Normally they say 'curfew from time 1045'.

[Nigel C]

Perhaps it was so quiet for movements that they figured they could post it up early, or perhaps all departing aircraft already had their airways clearances, or perhaps if they already were using 16R for departures (you didn't include the whole ATIS to include wind) and there were no more arrivals due until after the curfew period started?

[Phil M]

If there are no more movements (or a couple already taxiing, but no more pending), the curfew tape can go up early. this usually happens around weekends when most of the scheduled departures are gone well before the curfew kicks in, and all that are left are curfew concession aircraft.

[Philip Argy]

I've seen it go up 15 mins early but never 35 mins early, even on weekends. How often would curfew be notified as in place as early as 2225?

[Phil M]

Whenever traffic warrants it. Remember, the CATIS is just a means of disseminating information. It is not the arbiter of runway allocation or procedure, merely the way we inform pilots of our general operating plans. If it goes up that early, it would mean there are no more planned operations for the old mode, so we put up the tape early to assist in the transition to curfew for the Tower and TCU.

With the curfew notified on the CATIS, there it nothing stopping us from having aircraft depart from any other runway at any time. Just the same way it can broadcast an incorrect (inaccurate?) wind but as long as we notify all aircraft of the actual wind, then no harm, no foul. It's just another way of passing on essential information.