Virgin Blue Eyeing B767s or ex-Emirates A330s

[Will H]

Thought you all might like this. ;)

Virgin Blue is reportedly looking into acquiring B767-300s or ex-Emirates A330-200s with an operational start from next February.

First 3-class B737 is also reportedly expected to be delivered in 2 months.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/wings-down-under/2010/07/virgin-blue-evaluating-additional-widebody-options.html

[Nigel C]

Without wading through a blog, I trust they'd be used for international ops? Because there sure isn't room in Sydney for domestic ops unless they pushed JetStar off Bay 49 or used bussing operations only.

[Dale C]

Does anyone know if VA can convert their 777 options(6 I think?) to 763s?
If so, and they can get new builds quickly, that may be the way to go.
To me, if they are to be used domestically as well, the 763 model is better than the 332, which will really struggle domestically for DJ, even though it will perform well regionally.
How old would the EK 332s be? Do they maintain their aircraft well as a general rule? I ask mainly in regards to say a 10yo 332, where it could be pretty tired and EK are ready to ditch it.
The tone of the article is very suggestive that any WB introduced next year will be an interim type until 787s arrive.

Dale.

[Michael Morrison]

I think 332's would be the better option and could be used to expand to Asia where the 777 is too big.

Perhaps even use the 332 to increase HKT frequencies then redploy the 777 to JNB/USA

[Owen H]

Nigel,

My bet would be for domestic ops.

They can't realistically compete with Qantas for business travel with only the 737, and the larger aircraft I would image are to provide service between the major ports (SYD - MEL, BNE, and PER)

Just my gut feeling though.

[Nigel C]

The T2 terminal extension (and Twy Charlie re-alignment) is due to begin soon, but it won't be complete for some time.

I wonder if Qantas would lease them a gate or two....?

[Owen H]

Or lease them a 767 or two given there's some parked in the desert?

That'd be quite funny to see!

[Nigel C]

It wouldn't be the first time Virgin Blue has had an odd liveried bird, but that idea would take 'odd' to a whole new level.:D

[Zac M]

Or lease them a 767 or two given there's some parked in the desert?

That'd be quite funny to see!

If you are referring to the Qantas 763s, they have actually been sold for freighters (OGA, OGC and OGD that is)

[Owen H]

Indeed they have. Plenty more where they came from though ;)

[Will H]

Without wading through a blog, I trust they'd be used for international ops? Because there sure isn't room in Sydney for domestic ops unless they pushed JetStar off Bay 49 or used bussing operations only.

Sometimes it's worth wading through.

While the widebody aircraft are expected to join Virgin Blue's fleet under the international V Australia banner, the source says it is expected they will also fly on domestic trunk routes. Although Virgin Blue's present domestic gate space at Sydney airport is inadequate for widebody aircraft, the source says the airport has made "accommodations" and is now suitable for the A330 and B767.

[Oliver Gigacz]

Can Melbourne (T3) and Brisbane (Virgin Domestic) accommodate B767s and A330s?

[Skip Fulton]

Melbourne can take the B777 so yes. Brisbane can I think but needs adjustments to aerobridges

[Jason Carruthers]

BNE is capable of handling at least 2-3 767's at any given time. Gate 40 has seen 747's during the 767 Groundings.

[Nigel C]

Sometimes it's worth wading through.

But sometimes it's not.

Although Virgin Blue's present domestic gate space at Sydney airport is inadequate for widebody aircraft, the source says the airport has made "accommodations" and is now suitable for the A330 and B767.

The blog seems to contradict itself here. On one hand it's saying the situation presently is 'inadequate' at Sydney, and then it's saying 'now suitable'.:confused: So we're expected to not only trust the nameless 'source' to try and validate the story, but we're also to make our own conclusion as to what the author is really telling us?

Secondly, just what are these 'accommodations' that have been made, or could the source not provide these? Maybe the author didn't feel the need to follow up on this?


To me, anonymous, half-cocked (and often untrue) statements made on web pages and forums such as Pprune just aren't worth wading through.

[D Chan]

A few comments here:
- JB is not an idiot and he would have learnt the lesson from QF's a332 ops on cityflyer services and how long it takes to turnaround an a332, the only other option is 767 and it's most likely going to be leased second hand.
- significant investment is required to update products, fleet, lounges and so forth in line with their new strategy:
1) where is this money going to come from, and does this explain why their shareprice is so low again (31c)
2) how long will it take for them to generate return on investment?
3) what will this mean for its old image to the leisure market when the new brand is relaunched?
4) what does this mean for its 737, embraer, 777 fleets when a 4th aircraft type is introduced - how will this impact its cost base?

[Will H]

The blog seems to contradict itself here. On one hand it's saying the situation presently is 'inadequate' at Sydney, and then it's saying 'now suitable'.:confused: So we're expected to not only trust the nameless 'source' to try and validate the story, but we're also to make our own conclusion as to what the author is really telling us?

OK, a bit tricky--was inadequate but will be suitable if it's not already. Without knowing what the changes are (sources couldn't elaborate) and if they have already been physically made it's hard to say much more.

Secondly, just what are these 'accommodations' that have been made, or could the source not provide these? Maybe the author didn't feel the need to follow up on this?
I did feel the need to follow up but there wasn't further information available.

[Will H]

A few comments here:
- JB is not an idiot and he would have learnt the lesson from QF's a332 ops on cityflyer services and how long it takes to turnaround an a332, the only other option is 767 and it's most likely going to be leased second hand.
- significant investment is required to update products, fleet, lounges and so forth in line with their new strategy:
1) where is this money going to come from, and does this explain why their shareprice is so low again (31c)
2) how long will it take for them to generate return on investment?
3) what will this mean for its old image to the leisure market when the new brand is relaunched?
4) what does this mean for its 737, embraer, 777 fleets when a 4th aircraft type is introduced - how will this impact its cost base?

A few thoughts:
1. JB (and Godfrey when he was around) have made clear you need to spend money to make money

2. I suspect only a few people within VB will known that answer, and even then will be very approximate. It's hard to measure a return on investment of a lounge upgrade since you can't easily measure how many pax are booking higher fare tickets because of the lounge.

3. Depends what the new image is ;)

4. Well costs aren't going to go down, but the thinking would be that the additional cost would be offset by higher revenue generated from new aircraft

[Nigel C]

OK, a bit tricky--was inadequate but will be suitable if it's not already. Without knowing what the changes are (sources couldn't elaborate) and if they have already been physically made it's hard to say much more.

So if it's hard to tell the full story, is it really worth publishing incomplete dribs and drabs? If the source can't elaborate then that tells me that a) they really don't know what they're talking about; b) they are only speculating themselves; or c) they're speaking way out of class.


I did feel the need to follow up but there wasn't further information available.

So again, if the story is incomplete (and therefore at risk of being inaccurate), is it really worth putting your name to it and publishing it?

[Dave Dale]

'
4) what does this mean for its 737, embraer, 777 fleets when a 4th aircraft type is introduced - how will this impact its cost base?

Did I read somewhere here in another thread not long ago that Virgin were thinking of getting rid of the Embraer fleet? If so, is this part of some new strategy (or a costly mistake)?

[Jayden Laing]

JB mentioned in one of his roadshows that he staged when getting to know everyone in the DJ that the E170 jets are useless, even on the SYD-CBR route & the E190, well they aren't much better but they could work on the thinner routes like HBA.
The E170's are just full of glitches & problems for example the other night at work, one of the E170's had to do a double engine start at the boarding gate just to fix a minor glitch in its electronic system.

[Michael Morrison]

the E170 jets are useless,

Better not tell other carriers who seem to be able to make them work. FLYBE have just ordered 35 of the buggers!

[Skip Fulton]

I think the issue is more about matching aircraft capability with the type of flying you are doing.

Eg: using a B777 to do SYD-NAN-SYD isn't the best option. Similar using the E170/E190 for sectors under 1 hour isn't the best option either.

[Dave Dale]

Hi all

Reading an article from Aviation Week today, it claims that Virgin Blue is going to lease and purchase A330's for its expansion (personally looking forward to some new B767's in our skies).

Source: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news/awx/2010/08/25/awx_08_25_2010_p0-250490.xml&headline=Virgin%20Blue%20To%20Offer%20Business%20C lass

[Sarah C]

Breaking News from Travel Daily:


V Australia to operate to Abu Dhabi - but out of Africa and Thailand

Virgin Blue has just announced a $21.3 million net profit for the year to 30 Jun, as well as revealing a "major new partnership" with Etihad Airways.

The deal will enable V Australia to launch non-stop services to Abu Dhabi in 2011, with the two airlines set to offer a joint network of more than 100 destinations from 01 Oct.

V Australia will operate three weekly Sydney-Abu DHabi services per week from Feb 2011, as well as three Brisbane-Abu Dhabi flights by February 2012, while the agreement will also see DJ customers able to access the EY network of 65 destinations.

Reciprocally, all Virgin Blue services will available to Etihad customers, with the agreement also integrating the Etihad Guest and Velocity frequent flyer programs.

Virgin Blue ceo John Borghetti said the alliance would allow the carrier to redefine its long haul operation and unlock a "genuine global network.

"This is a real game changer and positions us as a truly global player," he said.

Borghetti also announced the second phase of the Virgin Blue network review, which will see Virgin Blue add two wide-body A330-200 aircraft to its domestic fleet to provide "additional flexibility, capacity and product opportunities to better penetrate both the leisure, corporate and government markets".

V Australia will also suspend its flights to South Africa and Phuket, in addition to the previously announced withdrawal of its Fiji services. The Johannesburg and Phuket services will cease operation in Feb 2011, Borghetti said.

[Andrew M]

Yes I have heard A330's as well :(

[Andrew M]

HA - Yes it's official now

Two Airbus A330-200 aircraft in May 2011

[Bernie P]

AND please, DONT be all red!!!!!

[Kent Broadhead]

My reading is that the A330s will be for a Perth shuttle from the east coast?