Virgin Blue - Full Year Results

[Andrew M]

Lots to talk about in this one!

The financial results aside

V Australia will withdraw from its loss making Boeing 777-300 services to South Africa and Phuket.

Will operate 2 weekly Sydney to Abu Dhabi and 3 weekly Brisbane to Abu Dhabi services from Feb 2011.

Returning 6 E170's during FY11

Lots of other info that others can add, but these 3 caught my attention.

Taking on the big boy (Emirates) by flying to Abu Dhabi... Again not a good idea, much like Fiji, South Africa and Phuket with their 777 really. However, what will save them is IF the ACCC allow them to "share customers"

[Brad Myer]

Good news for Virgin!

Also good news for QF/JQ with no more V Aust on the Phuket and Joberg routes.

Good to see Virgin/Etihad giving Emirates a run for their money on the Australia-Middle East-Europe run.

Thanks

[Garry Emanuel]

Short-lived tie-up between QF and Etihad. Wonder how QF will fill that void - Qatar Airways ?

[Oliver Gigacz]

Qatar only fly to Melbourne, Unless they start flying to Sydney very soon I doubt we will see a codeshare between them.

Is there a PDF we can download of there full year results?

[Dave Dale]

Yes, at the ASX website under company code VBA.

Dave

[Oliver Gigacz]

According the report...

Virgin have 69 B737NGs on order including 700,800 and 900 variants.

Six lease returns of B737s with options for three more (I think they will be the early B737-700s).

Within 12 months, 3 more E190s.

[Chris W]

Will this mean an exit from ABX?

[JamesW]

No not necessarily condsidering they took a E190 up to PMQ a few weeks ago when they were short out on E170's due to the maintenance issues(no engine etc.) ABX's runway is nearly 300m longer than PMQ's.

[Chris W]

I was thinking more from a demand point of view and an E190 possibly being a saturation of seats on the route.

[Mick F]

Does anyone else see some similarities between where Virgin is going (737, E190, 777, A330), and where Ansett was just before they folded (multiple different types)?

Mick

[Dave Dale]

Could the E190's suffer the same decision as the E170's and have an all Boeing narrow body fleet in the future?

Dave

[Oliver Gigacz]

I think Virgin will keep the E190s for a few more years.

But I do think it is a big mistake choosing the A330.

[Andrew M]

2 x A330's is not really going to help much!

http://www.virginblue.com.au/AboutUs/Media/NewsandPressReleases/P_013367.htm


“The first A330-200s will operate services between Perth and the east coast of Australia enabling Virgin Blue to grow available capacity, especially at peak times, extending the airline’s appeal to business travellers,” he said.

Mr Borghetti said the wide body services would provide Guests with an enhanced in-flight experience and a convenient schedule, connecting seamlessly with the Group’s other domestic and international services.

“The Airbus A330-200 will truly be a game changer. This aircraft type is perfect for growing our fleet and network capabilities,” he added.


Three things:

1. The first A330's.... That indicates to me that more will follow down the track.

2. I wouldn't say the A330 is a game changer... It's not an A380 nor a B787, but I guess it's better than being stuck in the B737's.

3. How does an A330 give a more convenient schedule than an B737.. :confused:

Okay - So 2 flights per day in each direction from say Melbourne and Sydney to Perth will be on the A330. Not really that good when there are another 3 flights per day that will be on the B737.

While these steps are a small step in the right direction, I feel that DJ has really lost the plot since the introduction of V Australia.

What the future holds I am not really sure to be honest anymore

[Damian N]

Does anyone else see some similarities between where Virgin is going (737, E190, 777, A330), and where Ansett was just before they folded (multiple different types)?

......apart from operating more than one type I can't see many similarities at all. Most airlines around the world operate more than one type.

In the final years of Ansett there was a 'Noah's Ark' of aircraft....

F-28s, F-50s, BAe-146s in -200; -300 and freighters;
Metros, SAABs, CRJs and Twin Otters in regional flying;
737, 747, A320, 767-200 and -300s;

So VBA would need to add a few more types yet to match Ansett's zoo of fleet types with all it's inherant costs.

[Michael Morrison]

2 x A330's is not really going to help much!

2 is not all they will get.... there will be more in line further down the track and I would expect these to start thinner asian routes that dont need a 77W like HKG etc

Personally I think the 330 will be a good addition to the DJ fleet.



Does anyone else see some similarities between where Virgin is going (737, E190, 777, A330), and where Ansett was just before they folded (multiple different types)?

Mick

Not really....

Ansett had alot of similar frames meeting the same missions

737 &A320
BAE and F28 etc
3 man 767 copckpits...

QF operate more than 4 types... A380/747/767/A330/737NG/737Classic/717/Dash8 etc and they seem to be able to make it work.

Ansett also had a ridiculous cost base.....

[Ash W]

Short-lived tie-up between QF and Etihad. Wonder how QF will fill that void - Qatar Airways ?

Why do they need to? Most of the traffic through the gulf is transit anyway.

[Ash W]

Does anyone else see some similarities between where Virgin is going (737, E190, 777, A330), and where Ansett was just before they folded (multiple different types)?

Mick

There is no issue having multiple types so long as they are appropriately used.

There is an issue in having a fleet that was purchased at the whim of a flamboyant individual without any real idea of how and where they are to be used. Made worse by the simple fact that when this fleet needed to be replaced said airline was owned by someone else who had no or little intention of putting in the money to upgrade the fleet so he sold it, to an airline who also didn't have the money required.

[Dale C]

Does anyone know if these 2 are ex EK? I assume these are leased(5 yrs?). The initial requirement was supposedly 6 WBs, with availability from Feb 2011. I assume another few 330s will eventually be ordered/leased.
Where does this leave a potential 787 order?
Lots of questions, but I'm a bit underwhelmed with the announcement yesterday.

Dale.

[Andrew M]

Indeed - 2 x A330's doesn't really change much does it!

There was no mention in the ASX or media release if they are new or leased and when/if any more than 2 will be used.

This afternoon Virgin Blue are making their other big announcements, which should be business class etc etc

[Paul f.]

I think VB have more plans for the A330,s than just PER-east coast, i believe V Aus should have got A330-200,s rather than the 777-300. 2 x A330's is not really going to help much!

.

3. How does an A330 give a more convenient schedule than an B737.. :confused:

Okay - So 2 flights per day in each direction from say Melbourne and Sydney to Perth will be on the A330. Not really that good when there are another 3 flights per day that will be on the B737.

While these steps are a small step in the right direction, I feel that DJ has really lost the plot since the introduction of V Australia.

What the future holds I am not really sure to be honest anymore

[Andrew M]

Yeh no doubt they do but the only facts we know for now is that they are getting a massive 2 x A330's which may or may not be leased.

No news to further aircraft
No news of using 787's for domestic

If they think an A330's are going to be better than a 787.......

Not turning this into an Airbus vs Boeing war, but using an old design plane vs a 787 is enough.

We can only hope the A330's are a temporary measure until they get 787's!

[Damian N]

Phttt!!! I had this idea years ago!

[Ryan K]

I think that colour scheme looks great on the A330. They should drop the ".com.au" though. I think by now people know how to get to their website.

[Chris W]

From Travel Today;
http://www.travelweekly.com.au/dirplus/images/travelweekly/TravelTodayPDF/27_08_2010.pdf

330s for DJ will be leased from Emirates.

[Andrew M]

So 2 "old" Emirates A330's

Not exactly ground breaking

Sorry, just VERY underwhelmed by this!

[Nadia B-J]

Hi Andrew,

I feel the same, very :eek: underwhelmed.

[Ash W]

What were you underwhelmed people expecting? A complete fleet renewal and dancing girls?

In context though this is probably one of the most important annoucements by Virgin Blue ever as it clearly signals their intention to move away from their orginal forumla and in doing so moving in on Qantas's currently exclusive premium market. No doubt over time you will see some more exciting fleet annoucements and product changes, but you need to give it time.

[lloyd fox]

I just received a email from a aviation ctc who states today's Australian Financial Review states 5 more expected as well a total of 7.

[Nadia B-J]

Hi Ash,

Hooking up with EY & VA flying to AUH 3 x weekly, isn't that shipping coal to Newcastle so to speak? :confused:

Also, going A330 instead of 763 = mixing fleet commonality up/purchasing power is mixed over other suppliers, more training etc...
I understand A330's take longer to turn around on the ground than 763's??

Anyway, I am biased towards Boeing product, so would you expect :cool:

However, I agree holistically about competing head to head with QF on the exclusive premium market & fully support this move.

Yes, time will tell how it all pans out.

I am fully in support of transformation and very a loyal Virgin customer :)

Gotta love this forum, it's a great place to debate & exchange ideas.

Cheers.

[Ash W]

Hi Ash,

Also, going A330 instead of 763 = mixing fleet commonality up/purchasing power is mixed over other suppliers, more training etc...
I understand A330's take longer to turn around on the ground than 763's??



A330 or 767 makes no difference as there is no comminality between the 767 and any aircraft in the current Virgin Blue/V Aust fleet. As for turn around times, they like Qantas plan to use them on longer routes so it really isn't an issue if it takes 15 minutes more to turn after a 4+ hour flight to/from Perth.

Also you need to stop and think for a second what aircraft are available and on what terms they can be obtained/leased. Clearly these 7 (2 have been annouced and 7 are reported to be coming) A330's are available now and on good terms.

As for the whole annoucement as I said the real news item is the clear signal that they are going to take on Qantas's strangle hold on the premium end of the domestic market.

[Damian N]

This afternoon Virgin Blue are making their other big announcements, which should be business class etc etc

......haven't seen anything....did I miss it?:confused:

[D Chan]

Phttt!!! I had this idea years ago!

I wonder if they'll still be called Virgin Blue by that stage... if they were to consolidate their international, domestic and pacific brand it might be V Australia unless they can sort out their naming issues for international flights

[Jarden S]

The 6 E-170s are being sold and 3 new E-190 to come next year. They will have a reduction in regional operations of 3 a/c. What routes do you think will get dropped? The Melbourne-Mildura route and Sydney-Albury/Port Macquarie/Coffs Harbour may all be gone!

[Ryan K]

The Virgin Blue website shows SYD-CFS route being serviced by an E190. Why would this be chopped?

[Kain C]

MEL-MQL occasionally gets E90 and even 73G on rare occasions, so they might be able to grow that route to E90 capacity, although I think JB has said he wants the E90s on long, thin routes. Don't know about CBR-HBA, CBR-TSV, TSV-CNS, TSV-ROK, TSV-OOL as these were the most recent to start operation.

[Damian N]

The 6 E-170s are being sold


Hmmmmmmmm..............maybe...........:p

[Rob R]

All 6 170's are currently being adverstised For Sale/lease on Planemart.com. JB what's them gone ASAP and the staff were told this at the rescent company roadshows.

190's will continue on CFS, but operation into PMQ and ABX with the 190's is still a big '?' If it's not working in a 170 it will not work in the 190.

[Mick F]

It will be a huuuge shame, if DJ pull out of PMQ. Of the couple of times I've flown into and out of Port on them, both ways were quite full.

It's nice just to have someone with reasonable airfares on the route, because if they do pull out, then watch QantasLink put their airfares up straight away, to stupid levels again.

Perhaps DJ needs to explore the options of turbo-props?

Cheers

Mick

[Rob R]

You can't rule turboprops out at DJ. My understanding is JB has mentioned it a few times, but his priority was getting the widebodies into the Domestic network, followed by a revamp of the whole product which will occur early in the new year (uniforms, cabin layout etc etc).

The airfare price is the reason the 170s aren't working, DJ are not getting the yield they need to operate a jet on these short sectors. No jet will make money on routes less than 300 miles unless all the pax are paying full fare.

[Jarden S]

If DJ had Q400s like Qantas they might also suffer from the same maintenance issues with their fleet.

[Jayden Laing]

DJ were rumoured to be looking at the ATR series aircraft & comparing them with the Q400.

[Mike W]

I'm genuinely concerned about the new direction of DJ under Borghetti. The similarity DJ had with the most proftable airline in the world (and the most emulated), Southwest, is now but a memory. DJ has been considerably successful through a difficult period in Aviation history (although I acknowledge Ansett's demise was a bit of a leg up).

Now we have Borghetti complicating the model, chasing what I consider to be ever diminishing returns, particularly wnen adding new fleet types.

Wasn't Borghetti involved with the Qantas expansion a few years ago when they purchased the 380s, 330s and the 744ER's? I hope Borghettis motivation is in the best interest of Virgin Blue and it's stakeholders (including staff) and not sime twisted copycat or revenge thing with his old employer. :mad:

[Andrew M]

http://www.virginblue.com.au/AboutUs/Media/NewsandPressReleases/P_013513.htm

Virgin Blue Group of Airlines has appointed renowned brand and identity designer Hans Hulsbosch as Creative Director overseeing the transformation of the Virgin Blue brand, which will include the Group’s new livery and corporate identity.

Virgin Blue Chief Executive Officer John Borghetti said master designer, Hans Hulsbosch and his brilliant team had more than 20 years experience in brand, corporate and product identity with some of Australia’s best known and loved brands.

“I’m thrilled to welcome Hans as Creative Director to the Virgin Blue Group of Airlines. His expertise in the area of design and brand integrity is second to no other in Australia.

“Hans and his team will oversee the Virgin Blue Group brand transformation, creating an identity that can stretch across both the leisure and corporate sector. Hans will be responsible for making sure every touch point represents the brand promise and connects with our guests,” Mr Borghetti said.

The Hulsbosch team will be responsible for the overall brand architecture.

Hans is thrilled to be working with the Virgin brand. “The Virgin brand is one of the most highly regarded and loved brands in the world. To be given the opportunity to work on the new direction for Virgin Blue is a dream project for me.

“Our brief is to take the brand to a new level of modern sophistication, keeping with the brands contemporary young spirit. It will be unmistakably Virgin with a fresh and innovative feel that also knows how to have a little bit of fun,” Mr Hulsbosch said.

The new brand will take the airline in to its next decade as it moves from a low cost carrier to a modern carrier that appeals to both the leisure and corporate market.

[Andrew M]

New livery! That is one thing that definitely needs an improve!

[Will H]

I'm genuinely concerned about the new direction of DJ under Borghetti. ...
Now we have Borghetti complicating the model, chasing what I consider to be ever diminishing returns, particularly wnen adding new fleet types.

Wasn't Borghetti involved with the Qantas expansion a few years ago when they purchased the 380s, 330s and the 744ER's? I hope Borghettis motivation is in the best interest of Virgin Blue and it's stakeholders (including staff) and not sime twisted copycat or revenge thing with his old employer. :mad:

There's no doubt Borghetti sees VB as his time to make a name for himself by improving VB and make it become all the good things Qantas never has.

At the start there was fear over the Qantas-isation but from what I hear, the company is really embracing Borghetti and his changes, and staff are reinvigorated.

Borghetti is doing the opposite of what you suggest: he's moving away from ever-diminishing returns on the leisure sector and going to higher-yielding corporate sector.

He's acknowledged the A330s do bring cost into the equation, but says their benefit outweighs those costs. Don't forget that while for now VB is only looking at 2x A330s for domestic use, it's almost inevitable they will get more--and perhaps use them internationally too.

[Rob R]

From the man himself, the A330 fleet will total 8.

[Michael Morrison]

I think the 330 makes sense. Other operators can fly the 77 and 330 successfully. The 330 can also fly Asian routes that dont make sense for the bigger 77W.

[Damian N]

DJ were rumoured to be looking at the ATR series aircraft & comparing them with the Q400.

Farm out some regional flying to Air NZ who can bring over a few Dash 8s......

[Bernie P]

PERHAPS, a sign of things to come??? (DJ A330 (http://twitpic.com/2m31hw/full))

[Stefan Perkas]

Lots to talk about in this one!

The financial results aside

V Australia will withdraw from its loss making Boeing 777-300 services to South Africa and Phuket.

Will operate 2 weekly Sydney to Abu Dhabi and 3 weekly Brisbane to Abu Dhabi services from Feb 2011.


Sorry for dragging this topic up but, here are the schedules for the Sydne-Abu dhabi flight. source http://airlineroute.net/2010/10/04/va-sydauh-w10/


V Australia from 24FEB11 launches Sydney – Abu Dhabi service on board Boeing 777-300ER aircraft, which operates 3 times a week.
Schedule below:

VA029 SYD1605 – 2340AUH 77W 247
VA030 AUH1045 – 0715+1SYD 77W 135

[Robert S]

Here are the schedules for the Sydne-Abu dhabi flight. source http://airlineroute.net/2010/10/04/va-sydauh-w10/

With European earlybirds currently on sale with QF and SQ, I just did a quick fishing trip on the V Australia website for comparative fares in June 2011.

For reference it appears the northern summer schedule might be:

SYD-AUH VA29 15:15-23:40
AUH-SYD VA30 10:55-06:20+1

Best return fares ex SYD I can find for June 2011:

LHR $1900.26
FRA $1832.06
CDG $1784.46 (Requires overnight transit in AUH on the return journey)
MXP $1742.16 (Requires overnight transit in AUH on the return journey)
MUC $1597.19 (See note below)
GVA $1511.36 (Requires overnight transit in AUH in both directions)

Note: System seems to refuse to route outbound MUC flight via VA - cheapest alternatives presented take DJ to BNE, then EK/VA codeshares to AUH and MUC.

[Ray P.]

Hmmmmmmmm..............maybe...........:p

I was thinking this perhaps:

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss64/Groover158/Aircraft%20Concepts/Embraer20ERJ-170yananyi-1.jpg

But then again, this would be very sweet, impractical but sweet nonetheless:

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss64/Groover158/Aircraft%20Concepts/McDonnell20Douglas20MD-11VB.jpg

Same with this:

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss64/Groover158/Aircraft%20Concepts/vaMD-11-1.jpg

[Mike W]

That ERJ "Paint Job" looks fantastic!

[Jarden S]

Its a shame we never had DC10/MD11s with any Australian airline.

[Geoff W]

From Herald Sun

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/virgin-blue-to-take-on-two-more-a330s/story-e6frf7ko-1225960107628

Kind regards,

Geoff

[Andrew M]

4 makes alot more sense than 2!

I would still like to know if these are new, leased or the old Emirates aircraft.....

Also read recently that VAustralia and Etihad will/want to build a new lounge in SYD international!

That IS a great step in the right direction!!!

The Mayalsian Lounge at SYD is pathetic and Etihad direct people to the Air NZ lounge from memory.

Found the link - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/virgin-and-etihad-work-on-expanding-their-alliance/story-e6frg8zx-1225958020922

[Robert S]

AGM - Chairman's Address:
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01124389

AGM - CEO's Address:
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01124388

[Jack Melon]

The 6 E-170s are being sold and 3 new E-190 to come next year. They will have a reduction in regional operations of 3 a/c. What routes do you think will get dropped? The Melbourne-Mildura route and Sydney-Albury/Port Macquarie/Coffs Harbour may all be gone!

I reckon they should dump the E190 service on BNE- NTL Return and go back to the 737. The BNE flights to newcastle and return are always full.

[Steve Jones]

I hear all Virgin's intra-WA flights are now full service - a big change from the VB of old!

[Jarden S]

When the E170s are gone will DJ drop the CNS-TSV flight as its a bit of a small route for the E190 between two regional cities.

[Ryan K]

It will also be interesting to see if CBR - HBA is kept as this is currently an E70 flight too.

[Robert S]

Virgin Blue's Twitter & Facebook feeds are saying it "is a big day" for them today. Of course that could just be another sale, but who knows...

[Andrew M]

Geez I have lost count of how many Facebook updates Virgin Blue has had in relation to this massive change which has no impact to anyone really. How boring.


Virgin Blue Group of Airlines and the Australian Football League’s (AFL) most exciting new team, the Gold Coast SUNS, today announced a three-year foundation sponsorship agreement.

Virgin Blue Group of Airlines’ General Manager Sales, Justin Montgomery, said that Virgin Blue was a new player on the Coast nine years ago and that it seemed a natural fit for the airline to get behind the newest team in town.

“We are extremely excited about partnering with the SUNS. They have put together an incredibly exciting player roster, with some of the game’s best and we are expecting great things from this partnership,” Mr Montgomery, said.

“This will provide a very positive boost for the local community. The Virgin Blue Group has been a strong supporter of local tourism for the past nine years and has increased capacity into the Gold Coast by 14 per cent during the past 12 months alone. We are confident this partnership will help further grow visitor numbers from the AFL fan base.”

Key elements of the agreement include branding on the club’s playing jumpers and Virgin Blue will also feature prominently at the new Gold Coast Stadium with naming rights to one of the stadium’s large corporate facilities – The Lounge – which will cater for 900 corporate guests every match day.

Gold Coast SUNS Chief Executive Officer, Travis Auld, said the partnership is a perfect match for the Gold Coast SUNS and the local Gold Coast community.

“With Host Plus and Virgin Blue as foundation partners the Gold Coast SUNS have the backing of two of the most bold, innovative and progressive brands in Australia,” Mr Auld said.

The Virgin Blue Group operates 330 flights per week or more than 17,000 flights per year into and out of Gold Coast Airport, carrying more than two million people from all over Australia and overseas.

To celebrate becoming the official airline of the Gold Coast SUNS, special Gold Coast airfares are on sale now for a limited period starting from just $55* one way.

[Brock Little]

I was hoping it would be something more exciting. Oh well, I'm hoping this means an influx of more visitors to the Coast - and more destinations from the GC served by Virgin! :)

[Robert S]

Geez I have lost count of how many Facebook updates Virgin Blue has had in relation to this massive change which has no impact to anyone really. How boring.

Yeah sorry guys, this is actually the worst one I've seen yet. Normally in the past it's at least been something of value, like their "sale within a sale" events where they have even cheaper fares than the sale fares if you use the links posted on FB and Twitter.

But today's "exciting event"? Meh. Couldn't have been less interesting if they tried.

[Andrew M]

Not your fault!!

When is the expected announcement of the new look DJ meant to occur ?

[Will H]

Not your fault!!

When is the expected announcement of the new look DJ meant to occur ?

Not for a few months from what I hear. Expect the occasion to be bundled with other big group news/occurrences (e.g. AUH launch, half-annual results).

[Robert S]

AUH launch and half annual results I gather are both due in late Feb.

Still can't believe them going on about nothing today. :(