QF74 - Engine Failure

[Mark Grima]

Hey guys,

See link below, originally seen on a/net.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/08/31/BA021F67JO.DTL&tsp=1

OJP is the bird in question.

Talk on a/net is the QF73 today will now have a fifth engine.

Cheers

M

[Sarah C]

The news reporting already this morning is embarassing. A number of them are saying there is damage to the fuelsage like OJK - they only damage was a whole in the engine. Meanwhile a crash in PNG that kills 3 Australians is less important........

[Montague S]

^ well the first thing I saw on the news was the PNG crash, if the news disturbs you, and the reporting inadequate, then switch off...

[Kent Broadhead]

I was just reading the SMH report - an amazing lake of sensation, and a reasonable passenger interviewed for once!!! :) http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/qantas-jet-turns-back-after-large-hole-appears-in-shell-around-engine-20100901-14fvw.html

[Dave Dale]

A good article really. Qantas still the safest airline for me!

[Russell D]

Just noticed this from the SMH article though:

An aviation expert, John Nance, told the San Francisco Chronicle the incident was an "uncontained engine failure" that was "an extremely rare event".

He said Boeing 747s were designed to "lose three of four engines and still be able to get back".

Last time I checked, 747s only have four engines in total, so not sure whether the a/c was designed to lose four engines and still be able to get back (without gliding that is).

[Philip Argy]

Not sure I agree that the SMH/Ten News report lacks sensationalism - comparing the QF74 engine cowling damage to the 2008 oxygen cylinder explosion and fuselage breach seems like sensationalism to me.

The fact that the cowling damage is so far back does seem to indicate turbine failure - anyone have a different view?

[Andrew P]

see they did a fuel dump

next we will hear it was BP fuel, and thus more BP polllution in American waters

[Adrian B]

Talk on a/net is the QF73 today will now have a fifth engine.

M

Will QF73 need a detour to take on additional fuel, given the additional drag from the 5th engine?

[Andrew M]

Once again another lucky "incident"

We should all be happy that the engine decided to spit outwards instead of any other way!

Very lucky to those on-board!

[Andrew M]

Here we go

Engine on explosion scare Qantas aircraft was shut down in 2006 due to fuel leak

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/aircrafts-engine-shut-down-in-2006/story-e6frfhb6-1225912819352

THE Qantas jet that made a dramatic emergency landing after an engine exploded shortly after take-off yesterday has been investigated for a faulty engine before, according to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau.

[Brenden S]

It appears to be the rear section of the turbine has let go. What normally happens is that there is cracking of the blades at the root. Most of the time there are limits to how much cracking is allowed. This is normally picked up during routine maintenance using a boroscope. Rolls Royce has limits, and at times they decide to pull the engine off the wing and have the engine stripped down and blades replaced. I just saw some footage on TV with the sparks etc flying out the back, which is normal during a turbine failure. It is a very rare occasion where the blades are not contained within the engine itself, so there must have been multiple blades that let go at the same time.

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

Does anyone know if QF73 departed with the 5th pod onboard?

If so, any photos.

Also as a guide, how long was the hole?

Stuart

[Sarah C]

Here we go

Engine on explosion scare Qantas aircraft was shut down in 2006 due to fuel leak

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/aircrafts-engine-shut-down-in-2006/story-e6frfhb6-1225912819352

THE Qantas jet that made a dramatic emergency landing after an engine exploded shortly after take-off yesterday has been investigated for a faulty engine before, according to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau.

Funny how that was engine 3 and the one yesterday was engine 4.

[Matt Southwell]

In response to this
Here we go

Engine on explosion scare Qantas aircraft was shut down in 2006 due to fuel leak

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/a...-1225912819352

THE Qantas jet that made a dramatic emergency landing after an engine exploded shortly after take-off yesterday has been investigated for a faulty engine before, according to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau.

Where I work the engines are a completely seperate body to the aircraft so to speak. Our engines get swapped around tail numbers and cannab'd all the time e.g. when an engine is U/S on a particular aircraft and there is no other option we cannab one from another aircraft which isn't going to be flying for a while, then that U/S engine goes off gets repaired and comes back ready to go on another aircraft when another engine goes U/S, so the fact that an engine was investigated on this aircraft before has nothing to do with the aircraft. that engine from 2006 is probably on a completely different 747 now.
I'm not saying thats how QF do maintanence, thats how the place I work for does it, Brenden is this correct for QF as well?

Matt

[Stu M]

QF 73 Ended up departing with no passengers.
Some went to LAX, some went on United, some will travel tomorrow.

[Fred C]

Matt, you are correct.

An engine is an engine. There is absolutely no relation to the same aircraft all that time ago.

Engines are changed when they are broken, time expired or even if the planning department want to swap them around for maintenance expediency. The engine they bolt to OJP may stay on for a week or for 5 years depending on a lot of other factors.:)

[Andrew M]

My link doesn't work anymore as the paper has removed it...

Here is another quality article

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/aircrafts-engine-shut-down-in-2006/story-e6frfhb6-1225912819352

Apparently they had to "dump fuel in case an emergency landing was required" :rolleyes::rolleyes:

But yes last time it was engine 3, this time engine 4.

It's like saying your car is a dud because one of your tyres played up before and now another one has.....

[Tim Bowrey]

VH-OJQ returning to the gate adding on to the 2.5hr delay. Ended up getting airborne off 34L about 3.40pm from the sched. dep time of 12:50pm.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i191/Marlb0ro/OJQ.jpg

[Sarah C]

Nice pic Tim :)

[Tony G]

Nice Shot Tim, been a while since i have seen the extra engine. Used to see a few a while ago.

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

Great shot Tim.

Thanks for sharing it!!

It's not that often you see a 5th pod on a 744.

Also, the engine on the 5th pod looks different to the others.
It wouldn't be a RB211-524 from B743 by chance?
Or is it just missing it's painted cowl?

With the 5pod, does that mean a Different flight path? or a Stopover for Fuel?

Finally, would the cruising height be affected?

Please advise

Stuart

[Trevor Sinclair]

AWESOME shot Tim!

[damien b]

From smh.com.au - according to the article an airworthiness directives were issued for Rolls-Royce RB211 engines requiring inspections at the next maintenance interval due to possible "uncontained engine failure".

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/qantas-engine-explosion-followed-safety-warning-20100901-14nnn.html

[Brenden S]

You basically have 3 series of RB211 engines

RB211-524D2 L1011 Boeing 747-200
RB211-524D4 Boeing 747-200 / -300
RB211-524G2/T/H Boeing 747-400 Boeing 767-300

The AD relates more to the D2 and D4 engines, however some investigating yesterday I found a AD for the G/H/T engines. The one I found was for compressor case cracking which could cause a unconfined failure. It appears though that with this engine that has failed that the whole disc has let go. It will certainly be interesting to see if a portion of the disc has actually cracked and flown out of the engine, which could some cause for concern. It is very typical for RR engines to develop cracking on the blades down at the root of the blade, and sometime in the dovetail. This is normally picked up on routine maintenance.

As for the engine, it may have well been the engine that was investigated a few years ago.

Matt, If there is a aircraft in for heavy maintenance, yes QF do rob parts off the aircraft to keep others going if there is no spares available. QF in Sydney have a section called V-Pod (5th pod) with all spare engines ready to go, so there is no real need to grab a engine off a aircraft in heavy maint.

Stu, there was a great post somewhere from Will Tidmarsh who was lucky enough to crew on a V-Pod one day. Perhaps do some searching and you will find it somewhere.

[Grant Smith]

audio between ATC and the Flight Deck (http://media.smh.com.au/travel/traveller/cockpit-audio-as-qf74-handles-engine-failure-1897737.html?from=newsbox)

[Philip Argy]

ATSB has issued this media statement:


Two ATSB investigators today arrived in San Francisco to begin their investigation into the 30 August incident involving an Australian operated aircraft that experienced engine failure just outside of US airspace.

The plane was forced to return to San Francisco airport shortly after take-off due to a failure with its number 4 engine. The failure was mechanical in nature and led to ejected material puncturing a hole in the outboard engine and damaging the plane's flaps.

The investigators are expected to remain in San Francisco over the next few days to examine the engine and components and work with the operator and crew to determine the cause of the incident.

The engine will then be shipped to maintenance facilities in Hong Kong where it will be further examined by ATSB's technical investigators.


I think the information about the flaps having been damaged is a new piece of information, as is the proposal to ship it to Hong Kong for ATSB technical investigation

[Brett o]

I was wondering what will happen to the damaged engine. Firstly will the engine be written off? If not will it be repaired by Qantas I assume in Australia ( or Hong Kong) or in the UK by RR ?

[Brenden S]

The engine. It will be broken down into its modules and parts will be thrown away, and others rebuilt into the same engine or made into another engine.

[Fred C]

QF 6006 should be in at 0715 on Sun morning. I am guessing it will have a V-Pod fitted.