QF32? - A380 Emergency Landing at Changi

[Darren Butterworth]

Just heard on 2Gb that an A380 had red and white panels fall off in flight and landed at Changi.

Any info?

Darren

[Dan Collins]

Full article here: http://www.smh.com.au/world/qantas-jet-engine-fails-20101104-17f49.html

Got a bit concerned after @flightblogger on Twitter sent the following message:

FLASH: Reports coming out indicating a QANTAS A380 has crashed in Indonesia enroute to Singapore.

Twitter then erupted with a lot of conflicting reports about the incident, debris being found in Indonesia etc.

Amazing how quickly information (and misinformation) can spread!

Just noticed in the article "Looked like a big plane. Like a Boeing 737-400...

Just glad it wasn't something more serious, like people were expecting.

Dan

[Geoff W]

Hope this is just news hype.

As long as its landed Ok in SIN.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/passenger-plane-bound-for-singapore-crashes-on-indonesian-island/story-e6frf7lf-1225947831695

Geoff

[Darren Butterworth]

They just said that it landed safely. :)

[Geoff W]

If this story is correct?

All is ok thankfully .

Geoff

[Noel White]

According to PlanePlotter, pick up a HFDL transmission from VH-OQA QFA32 LHR to SYD over Singapore.

[Dan Collins]

Looks like engine trouble.

This pic is allegedly QF32 http://i51.tinypic.com/ilketf.jpg

SMH has updated their story too.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/qantas-jet-engine-fails-20101104-17f49.html

This picture has just surfaced of debris http://twitpic.com/33pxs1

Dan

[Jason H]

So, is there another plane that crashed, or just all speculation?

[Michael Cleary]

The photo shows what appears to be part of an engine cowling - must have been a rather big failure.

Reports on ABC TV 24 say that it has landed safely.

[Geoff W]

From News Ltd

"Reports are still sketchy but authorities in Indonesia and Singapore have confirmed the plane, an Airbus 380, is now on the ground in Singapore."

Initial reports were very wrong.

As Dan mentions re: information and mis-information. It can be very dangerous and upsetting I am sure to anyone that knew of pax on the flight.

Main thing, its a good result.

Geoff

[Robert S]

Jason, at the moment it appears to only be a single engine failure which was bad enough that parts of the engine cowling appear to have fallen on the Indonesian island of Batam.

The reports seem to indicate that the rest of the aircraft has now safely landed back in Singapore after dumping fuel.

EDIT: Snap... three of us replied at once. :)

Certainly another serious and disturbing incident for the ATSB and others to look into, but doesn't appear to be anything catastrophic at this point.

[Dan Collins]

Another pic has surfaced, appears to have been taken from onboard QF32

http://yfrog.com/0quh4dj

Dan

[Jason H]

Thanks Rob, looking at those photos it looks like the whole engine cowling. Would love to see what the engine looks like on the ground

[Mike S]

Happy 90th Qantas!

Looks like it was Nancy Bird

[Robert S]

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/details?ArticleID=2010/nov10/5029

Statement on QF32 Air Return to Singapore - Aircraft has Landed Safely
Sydney, 04 November 2010

A Qantas A380 aircraft operating QF32 from Singapore to Sydney experienced an engine issue soon after take off and returned to Singapore.

The aircraft had 433 passengers and 26 crew on board.

In line with procedure, the pilot sought priority clearance for its return to Singapore. The aircraft landed safely at 11.45am local time.

Some media reports suggested the aircraft had crashed. These reports are incorrect. No Qantas aircraft has crashed.

Further details will be released once they are available.

[Sarah C]

Looks like it was Nancy Bird

She is haunting it

[Gavin Otto]

SMH has some pictures of the engine damage. Certainly looks serious.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/qantas-jet-engine-fails-witnesses-tell-of-hearing-explosion-20101104-17f49.html?autostart=1

[Benny Zheng]

Changi Airport Group spokesperson has just announced the following:

An A380 Qantas flight, QF 32, bound for Sydney, Australia, departed Singapore Changi Airport at 0956 hours today. For technical reasons, the aircraft turned back to Changi. It landed safely at 1146 hours.


So looks like we will see OQA missing in action for a short period and another 5th pod (on A380 or B744?) will be sent to Singapore for the replacement of the damaged engine? And isn't OQA just back from C-check from Frankfurt? Looks like the Qantas engineers will make some noise about outsourcing of maintenance works overseas...

[Tony P]

Nancy is haunted!!:p

Whoops just saw Sarah's response. That's the word around QF!!

[Laurent Sanhard]

Nancy is way too young to be having these problems :mad:

[Robert S]

I like how the SMH article now has this line:

A Qantas spokeswoman said there was "no suggestion it's come from our aircraft".

You can only hope that this autobot reponse was before the Batam debris imagery started coming out.

Meanwhile their approach to Twitter is poor - twitter is where the misconceptions about the incident got completely out of hand, but their official twitter team (as linked from http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/follow-us/global/en ) could only say this:

http://twitter.com/qftravelinsider/status/29637434349

@senopatix @bradatslice @grahamhills hi, we are an editorial team managing http://su.pr/3Egebp please direct your enquiries to Qantas direct

Basically their engagement with Twitter at present is purely marketing... not a great look when expectations today are that official Twitter accounts should be about customer engagement, not just promotion.

[Dan Collins]

Agree with you Robert. I'm disappointed (as an avid Tweeter) that Qantas don't have an official Twitter feed. qftravelinsider is the closest we get and it's purely marketing and holiday advice.

I'm not saying Qantas need a twitter feed, but a lot of other airlines do and in a situation like this it would certainly be of benefit.

Maybe we should put our hands up for a job at Qantas to look after their twitter feeds for them? Would get us access to the 90th anniversary celebrations too!

Dan (@dshibi)

[Darren Butterworth]

The interview with Ian Woods (aviation expert I guess) on channel 9 4.30 news put a calming level headed opinion to an otherwise excitable broadcast.

He stated that this is what they train for and that landing on 3 engines is basically similar to landing on 4.

I do have to say though that the pic of the debris through the front of the wing is pretty full on.

Qantas press conference shortly.

[Brian Wilkes]

She's just come back from a C check as well!

[Sarah C]

It was a standard engine failure, handled like all others, but the damage to the engine and wing is significant. Rolls Royce would be concerned at the damage, hopefully it is not a flaw with the engine design.

Anyone know what engines EK and SQ have on their 380's?

[Brian Wilkes]

EK has EA engines.
SQ have RR engines.

[Sarah C]

Thanks Brian.

[Brian Wilkes]

Might see OJR back in service!

[Darren Butterworth]

Qantas suspends all A380 services

[Laurent Sanhard]

Qantas now reporting that they will suspend all A380 take off's until they get further info from Airbus / Rolls Royce -

[Robert S]

He stated that this is what they train for and that landing on 3 engines is basically similar to landing on 4.

Yep... from the news so far, there doesn't seem to be anything particularly notable about the air return. Only real issue at the moment is why we're having yet another uncontained engine failure, which is one for the ATSB (or whoever has juristiction here) to look into (and I think there are questions for QF maintenance in there as well, not just the engine manufactuer, but that's for the investigators - no point speculating about this now).

The side lesson, as I mentioned, is that QF once again have to look at their engagement strategy with social and traditional media. Slow responses and knee-jerk deny deny deny responses mean you'll lose control of a story very rapidly these days.

EDIT: Okay interesting move to suspend A380 ops, that ratchets the intensity of the story back up again.

[Laurent Sanhard]

Does Qantas have enough spare 747's to cover the A380 suspension ??:confused:

[Jason H]

No, they don't. 2 aircraft are currently in Avalon and i'm not sure of there status, but it looks like there will be some significant disruptions

[Jason H]

From SMH website

He (Joyce) conceded that some passengers would experience flight delays after the latest incident, including flights to Perth and Los Angeles.

Perth?? :confused: I'm sure they will be one of the worst affected....

[Brian Wilkes]

They would be pulling A333's off routes to cover 744's pulled off there routes to cover A380 routes if ya can understand that.:eek::eek:

[Daniel F]

I have a friend on QF12 tonight. They have been sitting on the plane for the past hour or so... and have only been just told that they won't be flying tonight.

[Nathan Long]

Qantas now reporting that they will suspend all A380 take off's...

What about landings?

[Jason H]

I would think that London passengers would be more affected

[Dan Hammond]

There appears to be an aircraft going to SIN as QF6021 at 2000, replacement aircraft?

[Dan Collins]

I have a friend on QF12 tonight. They have been sitting on the plane for the past hour or so... and have only been just told that they won't be flying tonight.

I have a friend on that flight too. He was all excited about the experience and getting settled in and then just 45 mins ago said he wasn't going anywhere.

Dan

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Just checked my SBS log for VH-OQA.
Maintainance was started on or about 11th September and ferried back to SYD on 8th October as QF6020.
11 return trips since then.

[Dan Collins]

Update from QF12 is that those passengers and those from another A380 (probably LAX-MEL?) are going to be accomodated by Qantas tonight but there's no word on when they'll get booked onto another flight at this time.

I'll stop with the QF12 updates now as this thread is pretty much dedicated to QF32 (although other A380 problems are probably related).

Dan

[Benny Zheng]

Today's QF 31 is delayed till 2000 and replaced with a B744. Not sure whether it will continue to London or pick up the stranded passengers.

Like what Dan has said, there is also a QF6021 to Singapore @ 2000 as well.

[Craig Lindsay]

I presume the graceful lady of the skies the 747 will be picking up the slack AGAIN

[Jack B]

In situations like this were 747s are positioned to pick up stranded passengers, do the Cabin Crew who operate the return flight pax on the way up?

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

Can QF Return to service the B744's in Storage in the USA, Unsure of location.

Also, can they still use OJR, or has it already departed for storage?

Please advise

Stuart

[Benny Zheng]

VH-OJB has been used to operate the QF31 flight to Singapore and not continue to London. So i guess it will pick up the passengers tomorrow morning and bring them back to Sydney. QF31 departed at 2138LT.

[Peter Agatsiotis]

VH-OJB as QF31 dep around 9:30 pm

(Benny beat me by 1 min!!)

[Montague S]

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2010/aair/ao-2010-089.aspx

home of the report, for those interested.

[Jack B]

So no F or Y+ to LHR tonight?

[Ray P.]

I thought it was funny to hear Sandra Sully saying that the Pilot was being lauded for; "dumping all the fuel before landing". :)

She also said that "the plane could fly on two, if not three engines". :)

Classic stuff from Channel 10. :D

[Annette Logan]

Singapore Airlines have also delayed A380's

FROM THE SINGAPORE WEBSITE
http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_UK/flights_australia.jsp
Delays to A380 flights
04 November 2010

Our engine manufacturer Rolls Royce and aircraft manufacturer Airbus have advised us to conduct precautionary technical checks on our A380 aircraft, following today's incident involving another operator’s A380.

Resulting from this development, Singapore Airlines will be delaying all flights operating our A380 aircraft.

We will keep affected customers updated and more information will be provided once it is available.

[Jason H]

Classic stuff from Channel 10.

I also heard the Channel 10 reporter at Sydney Airport get a little bit disorientated and say "the whole engine fell off"

...where would we be without the media

[Benny Zheng]

Singapore Airlines have also delayed A380's

FROM THE SINGAPORE WEBSITE
http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_UK/flights_australia.jsp
Delays to A380 flights
04 November 2010

Our engine manufacturer Rolls Royce and aircraft manufacturer Airbus have advised us to conduct precautionary technical checks on our A380 aircraft, following today's incident involving another operator’s A380.

Resulting from this development, Singapore Airlines will be delaying all flights operating our A380 aircraft.

We will keep affected customers updated and more information will be provided once it is available.

SQ has replaced the following A380 flights to Sydney and Melbourne tomorrow:

SQ221 to Sydney is changed to B773 (9V-SYG)
SQ227 to Melbourne is changed to B773 (9V-SYH)

SQ231 to Sydney remains as A380 (9V-SKK)

[Andrew P]

What about landings?

very precise language used by Joyce, as if had said QF has grounded all A380s, any in-flight at that point would have to land ASAP

as 2 A380s were in air on way to USA, it allowed them to complete their flight and not divert to nearest suitable airport

but i note Joyce dropped his guard at the end of his news conference and used the word grounding

p.s. this is why corporate announcements will never be made on Twitter

[Bradley Porter]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/facing-a-moment-of-truth/story-e6freuy9-1225948047624
Facing a moment of truth Paul Kent From: The Daily Telegraph November 05, 2010 12:00AM

THEY arrive home today. The fruit will taste sweeter, the sky will look just that bit more blue. The beer never better.

They might drive the Harbour Bridge, dig their toes in the sand at Bondi Beach, grab the kids out of school and blow off the day on a picnic.

They might do all these things. What they will definitely do is hug their mothers. Give their husbands a kiss to last forever.

Young men will forget their Aussie upbringing and wrap their arms around their old man to give him a squeeze ... something they would never have contemplated if they had not seen the engine of the Qantas A380 blow apart and think that the fear we all flash on is about to come true.

There is only one question that should be asked when the passengers of flight QF32 arrive this morning. What were their final thoughts?

In the moments between hearing an engine explode and the realisation that the plane was still able to be landed safely, every one of the 440 passengers would have experienced a sensation usually reserved for only the terminally ill or those facing the hangman's noose. The time and place of their death.

What would you say if you had the opportunity to craft your final words?

Much of it would have been, "I love you". But what else? And to who else? What did these people plan to say?

In all the demands for answers that will come, much of it when the passengers arrive at Mascot, it is the only answer I am interested in.

I dont think I have ever read such a huge load of sensationalist bull**** in all my life !

[Kieran Wells]

6.30am update from qantas. Looks like a BA777 is being leased to do QF10 London-Singapore:
UPDATED 6.30AM 5 NOVEMBER 2010 Qantas' special relief flight was dispatched last night from Sydney to bring passengers affected by yesterday's QF32 engine failure and air return to Sydney. This flight will depart Singapore at 10.30am local time.

Qantas has done everything possible to assist customers in Singapore who were provided with overnight accommodation and meals.

Customers in Los Angeles affected by Qantas' suspension of A380 operations have also been accommodated, while arrangements are made to get them on flights to Australia as soon as possible.

Qantas has liaised closely with Rolls-Royce and Airbus overnight in an effort to understand the cause of the incident.

The airline is also supporting the ATSB as it commences its investigation into the incident.

More than 70 Qantas international flights, serviced by other fleet types, will operate into and out of Australia today as scheduled.

Flight update:
* today's QF93 service (Melbourne-Los Angeles), normally operated by an A380, has been delayed by 24 hours
* QF12 and QF108 (both Los Angeles-Sydney) and QF94 (Los Angeles-Melbourne) have also been delayed by 24 hours. These flights were scheduled to depart Los Angeles on 4 November local
* QF11 (Sydney-Los Angeles) and QF31 (Sydney-London via Singapore) will operate to schedule, with B747-400 aircraft replacing A380 aircraft
* QF10 (London-Singapore) on 5 November will be operated by a B777 aircraft chartered from British Airways. A decision will be made later this morning regarding customers with onward travel to Melbourne

Customers have been contacted regarding these flight changes.

Qantas will provide further updates later today. Updates will also be provided an qantas.com.

[Daniel F]

Yesterday's QF12 is on the way to Sydney operated by a 747 now. Where did that 747 come from? Does Qantas have a spare 747 at LAX?

[Dave Parer]

Just for interest sake, do we know where the A380's are currently grounded? Apart from OQA in SIN, I have been trying to work out where the other five are.

I might be wrong but is OQC, OQE and OQF in SYD with OQB and OQD in LAX?

[Brett o]

I understand that
VH-OQA is in Singapore
VH-OQB undergoing C Check in Frankfurt
VH-OQC in Sydney,
VH-OQD in Los Angeles
VH-OQE in Los Angeles
VH-OQF in Los Angeles

[Justin L]

The AP Video on the USA Today article (http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2010/11/qantas-a380-incident/129918/1) mentions the recent volcano eruptions in Indonesia at the end, but states that it is unclear if the eruptions are a factor. Any chance this could have been a cause (obviously not in the 6 minutes after take off, but from recent previous flights around the area)?

[Laurent Sanhard]

Very unlikely as no other engines on the aircraft were affected , no doubt the engineers at Rolls Royce have their work cut out for them over the next few weeks:confused:

[Tony P]

Ch9 was all class this morning showing "exlusive" video of smoke coming out the back of the engine on the ground at Singapore. It was the water from the fire tender trying to shut down engine no.1!!

[Andre R.]

Any volcanic ash in that area?


Andre

[Philip Argy]

I'm a bit surprised that all A380s would be taken out of service - is there something that points to whatever occurred being common to all a/c? If this is the first Trent 900 to suffer this experience I understand the concern but in my ignorance grounding the whole A380 fleet seems like a lot of trouble to go to, especially when SQ operates 11 x A380s with the same power plant and is not following suit. :confused:

[Trevor Sinclair]

Phil, I was under the impression that SQ had grounded their's also http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/Util/showPopup.jspx?JSESSIONID=PtTfMTJBYvL5NR2cCm2Qzr02 VvGbD2Syw83CDN4LCnnFyy6jDjKh!-809764039!1633183034&method=window&refNo=2497167&windowUrl=/saa/en_UK/Util/BreakingNewsPopup.jsp?JSESSIONID=PtTfMTJBYvL5NR2cC m2Qzr02VvGbD2Syw83CDN4LCnnFyy6jDjKh!-809764039!1633183034&msgId=1

[Brad Myer]

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/a380-engine-explosion-qantas-boss-blasts-offshore-maintenance-claim-20101105-17gcu.html?from=age_sb

Mr Joyce said the exact cause of the engine failure was not yet known, but early investigations suggested it was a problem with the design of the engine rather than its maintenance.

Should SQ follow QF and ground A380s as well?

At least QF took the lead!

[Jason H]

Daniel,

It seems that VH-OEF operated QF12 departing around lunchtime on the 4th. Will arrive tonight at 10pm. It arrived in LA that morning as the 107.

[Gareth Forwood]

Someone earlier floated the question of whether a replacement engine would be ferried over. I'm just wondering, does the A380 has the capability to carry a 5th engine in a similar configuration to the 747?

[Mike S]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO7aIqxXjAo

Little bit of Onboard footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbW58bSzlLc

The landing on the inability of the engine to power down.

[Karl M]

VH-OJR has just departed AVV bound for SYD as QF6023. Poss replacement for A380's!?

[Tony G]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/facing-a-moment-of-truth/story-e6freuy9-1225948047624


I dont think I have ever read such a huge load of sensationalist bull**** in all my life !

Agree, it is a bit over the top, but I can understand the point being made. Every minute the aircraft was dumping fuel must have been an hour to the passengers looking out over a wing with a hole in it. Im sure a few would have had thoughts of the aircraft going down.

[Oliver Gigacz]

VH-OJR has just departed AVV bound for SYD as QF6023. Poss replacement for A380's!?

According to FlightAware OJR is going to Pinal Airpark.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA6023

OJR is currently at 33000ft tracking over ACT.

[Philip Argy]

The second one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbW58bSzlLc) showing the water spray after the a/c had come to a stop is interesting - why was so much water being directed at what seems to be the outer starboard engine or wing area. After a delay dumping fuel and long after the defective engine had been shut down, was there still a source of smoke or fire that required that level of deluge?

[Mick F]

The crew were unable to shut down the outboard engine Philip, due to damage from debris, hence the fire tender was actually trying to drown the engine instead.

Not sure how long it took, but I believe they were successful. Not exactly easy to do.

Mick

[Oliver Gigacz]

A Qantas A330-300 will operate the SIN-MEL leg of QF10 on Nov 5th.

[Philip Argy]

I wasn't aware that the adjacent outboard engine had been damaged to the extent that it could not be shut down. Does that mean that the fuel to that engine could not be cut off? That's a bit alarming, independently of the concern about the lack of containment of the inboard engine's components, and perhaps also now a concern that heavy 'rain' can cause a flame out!

This gets more and more interesting. As the ATSB has been appointed to lead the investigation, follow the updates here: http://www.atsb.gov.au/newsroom/news-items/qantas-airbus-a380-singapore.aspx

[Mick F]

I'm not privy to all the finer details Philip, but I believe that the engine was only running at idle power once damage was sustained.

And the rate at which those fire tenders can pump out water, I wouldn't call it "Heavy rain". I believe it took a long time for them to achieve a flame out, and given the fact that the engine was only operating on idle power and the rate at which the water was entering it, I'm not suprised they eventually succeeded.

Even a small PT6 turbine engine, can sustain a fair amount of water entering it, before it'll flame out. So you can only imagine the rate that would be required to cause a flame out on the Trent 900.

Mick

[Robert S]

I wasn't aware that the adjacent outboard engine had been damaged to the extent that it could not be shut down. Does that mean that the fuel to that engine could not be cut off?

At this point we'd only be speculating. Maybe that engine was damanged, maybe the connections to it were damaged. Keep in mind that we do know that the debris from #2 caused visible significant damage to the wing. Beyond that I'm happy to wait for the ATSB to figure out the rest of what happened there.

[Robert S]

but i note Joyce dropped his guard at the end of his news conference and used the word grounding

p.s. this is why corporate announcements will never be made on Twitter

That logic doesn't make sense. Corporate customer engagement on Twitter is not about handing some kid a mobile and saying "go tweet". It's about having appropriate communications and customer service people able to respond to customers and disseminate accurate information quickly. Unlike Joyce speaking off the cuff and slipping up, with Twitter it would have actually have been far easier to stay on message and not make such a slip up.

The simple fact here is that QF corporate comms were as slow to respond as always, allowing the initial reports to get far more out of hand than they should have, bleeding strongly into traditional media.

[Daniel M]

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2010/11/05/1225948/285014-qantas-pilot-richard-de-crespigny.jpg

Interesting in this photo from the Herald Sun website, showing by my count 2Captains, 2 FO's and a SO...how many crew does the A380 operate with from Singapore to Sydney? Or perhaps some were paxing crew?

[Mick F]

3 Captains, 1 F/O and 1 S/O.

Crew check and training going on, hence the extra Captains.

Mick

[Laurent Sanhard]

high quality pic from Dailymail.co.uk taken from an on board passenger
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326654/Qantas-Airbus-A380-superjumbo-explosion-forced-emergency-landing.html - sure did a fair amount of damage to Nancy's new wing !

[Craig Lindsay]

I heard the pilot had 54 error alarms going off and limited flaps and no thrust reverse

[Michael Cleary]

10 out of 10 to the Captain and his crew for the way they handled this. It seems that the Captain also fronted the passengers afterwards and addressed them as well.

[Erik H. Bakke]

Looking at the photos in various news reports, it looks like the fuel dumping happens inboard on the A380. Is this the case?

[Radi K]

did anyone else notice that the nose wheel landing bay doors are open - not stowed? would seem to indicate a hydraulic problem, perhaps the lines were cut?

[Trevor Sinclair]

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2010/11/05/1225948/285014-qantas-pilot-richard-de-crespigny.jpg

Interesting in this photo from the Herald Sun website, showing by my count 2Captains, 2 FO's and a SO...how many crew does the A380 operate with from Singapore to Sydney? Or perhaps some were paxing crew?

Daniel, I know this thread is large, so a brief update mate, there is a previous post in this thread about check Captains.

[Ash W]

.

[Graham F]

This failure is much worse than a simple blade, I understand it was a rotor that failed. How red hot parts punctured the fuel tank and yet didn't start a fire is remarkable.
Qantas and its passengers were very very lucky.
Remember the concorde that had a fuel tank punctured.

[Nathan Long]

Where does it say the fuel tank was punctured?

[Peter Casey]

Hi All,

I think that with all the Heroism and Praise of the Qantas Captain & Crew and interviews of passengers etc...

One could say we have our own Australian Version of Captain Sully, although the scenarios were completely different the outcome was indeed Heroism.

Rgds

Peter

[Ash W]

Peter think you are being a tad melodramatic comparing what happened on the Hudson with what happened with the A380. The big difference of course being the A380 had 2, if not 3 engines working properly and clearly the crew had plenty of time to go through all their procedures to bring this aircraft down safely.

So wouldn't call those in charge of this aircraft hero's, I would call them very well trained professionals who did a great job. Give me a professional over a hero anyday.

[Jarden S]

How many 747-400s has Qantas retired? Has it been 1 for 1 with every new A380 delivery? Why I was asking as they need every jumbo they have got right now will be difficult for them to operate all their flights with not enough planes. Did OJR get sent to the US dessert for storage last friday too?

[Philip Argy]

This failure is much worse than a simple blade, I understand it was a rotor that failed. How red hot parts punctured the fuel tank and yet didn't start a fire is remarkable.

I'm not sure if it's clear from the public photos if the wing puncture point was a fuel tank or just in front of the fuel tank around the activators/hydraulics for the leading edge control surfaces.

But it's certainly clear from the clues available that a lot more happened than we have so far been told. I'm glad the ATSB has the lead as their reports are of the highest standard and the preliminary report/s can be expected to reveal a lot more about the extent of the rotor failure and the consequences to other systems. Certainly the lack of containment is asatonishing and might even imperil the certification of the Trent 900 engines.

There's been a lot of talk about Qantas potentially having to pay compensation to people on the ground with damged buildings and vehicles, but it's pretty obvious Airbus and/or Rolls Royce will be picking up the tab so Qantas should be prompt and generous with compensation to limit reputational damage. It will be able to recover this from its supplier/s in due course.

I've lamented in other threads that such a terrific aircraft to fly and to be flown in is having such a reputation-damaging start to its career, and it's particularly frustrating that Qantas has to wear any opprobrium for being an early adopter. The different approaches between QF and SQ are also of interest, especially when both assert that they have complied with Rolls Royce advice re grounding of Trent 900-powered aircraft.

[Mark B]

Certainly the lack of containment is asatonishing and might even imperil the certification of the Trent 900 engines.


Not everything can be contained, and part of designing a plane is to consider such things.

[Tim Bowrey]

Regarding VH-OJD's issue today, there is a QF 744(assuming VH-OJQ) on Bay 9 with a 5th Pod this afternoon possibly going out at QF31 as QF5 SIN-FRA is delayed till tomorrow morning at 8.30am. It just got towed from the Jetbase.

[Jason H]

Jarden,

VH-OEC/OED/OJK/OJR are the only 744s that have been retired or are not operating for QF anymore. As for OJR i think it is currently out of Australia but I'm not sure.

There are also 2 744s in AVV for maintenance.

[Sarah C]

VH-OJR actually arrived in Marana this morning - left AVV yesterday. They must not have thought it woud be required, or it wasn't operational (interiors etc)

[Paul f.]

These are planned retirements, they just cant be put back into service overnight.

[Jarden S]

Thank's everyone for all the feedback.

[Matt R]

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/11/06/349411/qantas-to-change-engines-on-two-a380s.html

Qantas Airways will change two Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engines on its A380 aircraft as a result of ongoing inspections following the fleet's grounding on Thursday.

#3 on -OQC (currently at Sydney) and one of the 380s stuck at LAX.

[Neil Hogbin]

The BA 777 (YMME) which operated the QF10 to Singapore turned around and operated the Saturday night depature of QF31 back to Heathrow. I understand that BA are expecting to operate the Sunday night QF10 ex LHR as well.

[Peter H.]

Saw on news bulletins-as you all did- video of the take off etc. Thought passengers weren't allowed to use unless aircraft at cruising levels.

Might get my video out in future. Last time I used was circling Hong Kong waiting to land at old Kai Tak in a typhoon

[Laurent Sanhard]

just noticed that VH OQC - A388 is showing up on planeplotter as QF31 tonight , :cool:

[Jason H]

QF31 is meant to be VH-OEF as far as i'm aware.

[Peter Agatsiotis]

I noticed OQC on PP also Laurent; might just being towed around but certainly moving.

Will have to wait and see as no announcement on the evening news about A380's.

OEF only landed very recently from Buenos so will take a while to turn around!

Peter
(sharer b9 on PP)

[Laurent Sanhard]

qf31 not due to depart until 7.50pm tonight , looks like they might use the 744 - these teething problems that Qantas had with the A380 have turned out to require Root Canal Therapy :mad: ouch !

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Can anyone confirm if there is more than one QF A380 (OQC) in Sydney?

On another forum we can account for at least 4 but a bit of confusion regarding OQE & OQF (my SBS log has them both here but it may have missed one (or two) departures since the 4th Nov).

Thanks

[Tom PER]

Various sources have -OQD, -OQE and -OQF as in LAX. I think 1-2 of them were already enroute to LAX when -OQA suffered it's mishap.

Also it looks like -OJG and -OEH are the both at AVV. All other B744's in the QF fleet appear to be 'active', apart from the stored/withdrawn ones.

Also as a side note, would anyone know how many spare A380 engines QF has on hand?

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Thanks Tom

From my location I sometimes miss 16R departures if eastbound and shallow climb.

[Montague S]

On another forum we can account for at least 4 but a bit of confusion regarding OQE & OQF (my SBS log has them both here but it may have missed one (or two) departures since the 4th Nov).

Thanks

I was under the impression that OQE is actually in Europe for maint?!

[Peter Agatsiotis]

OQB is in Frankfurt for maintainence (since end Oct).

OEF (QF31) just flew overhead St Clair so quoted departure time spot on.

Also OEE is operating QF94D (nr Dubbo at the moment)

[Adam W]

QF31 is meant to be VH-OEF as far as i'm aware.

And OEF it was.
According to Qantas there is a QF8009 MEL-SIN-LHR departing at 0930 Monday which is currently showing as an A380, interesting to see if this goes ahead or is changed.

[Montague S]

Looks like the 380 will be out for a while yet.

http://m.theage.com.au/national/more-engine-woes-ground-qantas-spirit-20101107-17iya.html

[Adam.S]

And OEF it was.
According to Qantas there is a QF8009 MEL-SIN-LHR departing at 0930 Monday which is currently showing as an A380, interesting to see if this goes ahead or is changed.

Won't be an A380.
Probably will be OJP which arrived in MEL on QF10 this morning.
A 2nd QF 9 will head out from MEL later this afternoon on its usual departure time.

[Peter Agatsiotis]

On PP now is VH-OJT operating QF8011; presumabely to LAX to help stranded pax?

[Tim Bowrey]

VH-OJI did a QF8011 late last night SYD-LAX too.

[Adam W]

Article in todays West Australian.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/national/8275148/qantas-engine-failure-mirrors-test-incident/

[Laurent Sanhard]

must be some strong winds in yssy tonight , QF 32 VH OJU 744 is currently doing happy laps between Orange and Wagga Wagga @ 37000:)

[NeilP]

Huge lightning and thunderstorms, torrential rain, some hail... Wouldn't wanna be up there in it...

[Geoff W]

from Herald Sun

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/news/singapore-airlines-crew-refuse-to-fly-a380-after-oil-found-in-turbine/story-fn32891l-1225950837497

Kind regards,

Geoff

[Jarden S]

Various sources have -OQD, -OQE and -OQF as in LAX. I think 1-2 of them were already enroute to LAX when -OQA suffered it's mishap.

Also OQB in FRA under maintenance and that leaves only OQC in SYD.

Next Flights DJ1636 CNS-TSV-CNS 1/2 Dec

[Philip Argy]

SQ has now joined QF in grounding Trent-900 powered A380s with "oil stains": http://yssyforum.net/board/showpost.php?p=52346&postcount=1

Not sure what the mechanism involved is but I surmise that leaking oil can end up compromisng the clearance between the turbine and the casing, causing failure.

[Robert S]

Not sure what the mechanism involved is but I surmise that leaking oil can end up compromisng the clearance between the turbine and the casing, causing failure.

It could just as easily be merely indictative of an issue, rather than a direct cause.

[Philip Argy]

Certainly could, Robert - total speculation on my part as to what's causing the issue, but I'm renowned for sticking my neck out!

[Geoff W]

From Herald Sun:

"INVESTIGATORS probing the A380 engine saga have found that an oil fire may have led to the mid-air engine explosion last week that seriously damaged a Qantas jet.

Details of what is believed to have occurred were revealed today in an emergency directive by the European Aviation Safety Authority to all airlines which bought superjumbos fitted with the now suspect Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine.

Singapore Airlines and German carrier Lufthansa are the only other airlines flying Rolls-Royce powered super jumbos.

In today's directive, the European safety regulator said that a preliminary study indicated an oil fire may have caused the engine's intermediate pressure turbine disc to fail.

"This condition, if not detected, could ultimately result in uncontained engine failure, potentially leading to damage to the aeroplane and hazards to persons or property on the ground,'' the regulator warned.


Yesterday's directive makes it mandatory for the three carriers to carry out regular and repetitive engine inspections to check for oil leaks.

Should excess oil be found, then the engines must be shut down to prevent the likelihood of damage and drained of any excess oil, the regular said.

In response to the note, Qantas made it clear that it intends to keep its six superjumbos grounded indefinitely.

The national carrier said A380s would not return to service until there was "complete certainty'' they could operate safely.

The disclosures by the European regulator confirmed reports earlier this week that an oil spotting problem was to blame for last week's mid-air engine drama involving the airline's A380 flagship, the Nancy Bird-Walton.

Until now, neither the airline nor engine maker Rolls-Royce has been able to give a detailed explanation of why the number two engine on the big jet blew itself apart and rained debris over Bantam Island in in Indonesia.

Qantas said the specific checks ordered by the regulator were being carried out by Qantas engineers and Rolls-Royce.

Meanwhile, the airline has shuffled its fleet and replaced the troubled A380s with other aircraft.

The carrier said that a new schedule had been drafted to provide certainty for customers and their travel arrangements."



Apart from the enormous cost, what would the viability of changing engines to the same as EK has?

Or are the fittings so different that it just wouldnt work. Sorry I dont know! obviously to those in the know.

The costs are already adding up daily with the fleet out of use for now.

Unsure of "Yesterday's directive makes it mandatory for the three carriers to carry out regular and repetitive engine inspections to check for oil leaks."

What cost is this going to add?

Even if they are checked pre take-off, couldnt it occur as a flight progresses?

Again I dont know.

You wouldnt want it to happen half way across the Pacific for example.

Kind regards,

Geoff

[Philip Argy]

If there's an oil seal flaw that can lead to an oil fire that can trigger an uncontained engine failure it essentially means that every Trent 900 is a ticking time bomb, and with two hanging off each wing, what carrier would not follow the Qantas lead in grounding their A380 fleet until a mechanism for confidently removing the risk has been devised?

[Justin L]

Excerpt from the Qantas website (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/disruptions/global/en):

While Qantas is committed to bringing its A380s back into service as soon as possible, this contingency schedule has been designed to provide certainty for customers planning to travel in the near future.

The Qantas Group has a fleet of over 250 aircraft across domestic and international operations and all Qantas aircraft are being utilised to minimise schedule disruptions.

Boeing 747s have been replaced by A330s on the Sydney to Narita route and A330s have been replaced by B767s on Perth to Singapore services. B747s have also been replaced by A330s on the Sydney to Hong Kong route. These changes will enable Qantas to operate 747s on long-haul international services previously operated by the A380.

For the period of 5 to 11 November, Qantas operated 505 of the 512 scheduled services across its international network.

Minor changes have been made to aircraft operating certain domestic services in order to provide alternate capacity on the Qantas international network.

[Robert S]

http://www.atsb.gov.au/newsroom/news-items/qantas-airbus-a380-singapore.aspx

Update: 2.50pm - 11 November 2010
Safety action in response to the engine failure
On 10 November 2010 (European time), the European Aviation Safety Agency issued airworthiness directive EASA AD No: 2010-0236-E in respect of the operation of the Rolls-Royce PLC RB211 Trent 900 series engines. The airworthiness directive introduces a requirement for the periodic inspection of the high pressure/intermediate pressure engine structure for any abnormal oil leakage. If any discrepancy is identified, the further operation of that engine is prohibited.

This action is based on a preliminary analysis of the circumstances of the engine failure by the European Aviation Safety Agency, which the agency says shows that an oil fire in the high pressure/low pressure structure cavity may have caused the failure of the intermediate pressure turbine disc.

While the investigation is ongoing, and may take some time to fully understand the nature and implications of the engine failure, the action by the European Aviation Safety Agency to issue AD No: 2010-0236-E represents proactive safety action to minimise risk. That safety action will be reflected in the ATSB preliminary factual report that will be released to the public no later than 3 December 2010.

A full copy of EASA AD: 2010-0236-E is available at: http://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/2010-0236-E

[Robert S]

From http://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/2010-0236-E

Analysis of the preliminary elements from the incident investigation shows that an oil fire in the HP/IP structure cavity may have caused the failure of the Intermediate Pressure Turbine (IPT) Disc.

This condition, if not detected, could ultimately result in uncontained engine failure potentially leading to damage to the aeroplane and hazards to persons or property on the ground.

The directive requires ongoing inspection every 20 flight cycles and "If any discrepancy is found during the inspections required by paragraph (1) of this AD, any further engine operation is prohibited."

[Geoff W]

As Philp states.

"This is serious"

I am sure over time a resolution will be found, I also restate at what cost to QF, SQ and LH.

I should add I am a A380 fan, (I wasnt when Airbus were having their A380 issues, some years ago now) having flown on Nancy Bird Walton to LA from Syd last Dec.

It was absolutely brilliant in all aspects.

Kind regards,

Geoff

[Andrew M]

Wonder if SQ/QF/LH are going to swap to GE engines....

Extensive engine tests every 20 flights is not workable

How many engine swaps will have to occur.

[Ash W]

Doubt it. To change the existing A/C to the EA engines would be too hard for both existing aircraft and any new orders.

No doubt all 3 effected airlines will work hard with Rolls and Airbus to find an answer to fix the engines. I mean to say it's not the first time an engine has had troubles on a new aircraft. Look at the 747 for one good example. The problems there didn't kill Pratt nor the 747 program.

[Laurent Sanhard]

Qantas won't change engine suppliers , they have and will continue to have a good relationship with Rolls Royce , this problem with the Trent 900 could have turned out a lot worse , some aircraft don't get a second chance during a major incident ( concorde) , we have to give credit to Qantas and their priority with safety in this case , I am due to fly QF32 late in January , and I think that if there arev any positives in this case its that they found out about this problem sooner than later :cool:

[Anthony T]

The 787 can change different types of engines, just bolt the new type on, and do a software upgrade, as for when the 787 will enter service, who knows?

[Brenden S]

20 cycles is pretty easy going. I have seen worse than that. Mind you as soon as there is oil staining that's it, engine off the wing.

[Philip Argy]

The AD requires every 20 flights extended idle running of each Trent 900 engine with inspections of the Low Pressure Turbine (LPT) stage 1 blades and case drain, HP/IP structure air buffer cavity and oil service tubes in order to detect any abnormal oil leakage, and if any discrepancy is found, prohibits further engine operation. That's pretty stringent and obviously isn't a procedure to be carried out parked at the gate!

[Andrew M]

So how long would this check take at every 20 cycles....?

Oil was found in 7 out of 68 engines, I am excluding Lufthansa at the moment as their engine change was for an "unspecified problem" :rolleyes:

3 with Qantas, plus the one that went bang
3 with Singapore

11% of the current Trent with an issue.

Unfortunately only a matter of time before more oil is found....

[Greg McDonald]

Article from NEWS.COM.AU:

A QANTAS superjumbo was a flying wreck after an engine exploded shooting chunks of metal through fuel tanks and flight control systems.
Last week's mid-air emergency off Singapore also badly damaged a wing, which may have to be replaced.
The Herald Sun can reveal the full list of damage as Airbus A380 was nursed back to Singapore on three engines.
When it touched down the fuel systems were failing, the forward spar supporting the left wing had been holed and one of the jet's two hydraulic systems was knocked out and totally drained of fluid.
Sources compared flight QF32 to the Memphis Belle, the World War II bomber that struggled back to England from Germany on its final mission and became the subject of an award-winning 1990s Hollywood movie by the same name.
Richard Woodward, vice-president of the International Air Pilots' Federation, told the Herald Sun yesterday that the lesson from the near disaster was the value of an experienced flight crew.
"There was a wealth of experience in the cockpit, even the lowest ranked officer on board had thousands of hours of experience in his former role as a military flying instructor," said Capt Woodward, himself an A380 pilot on leave from Qantas.
As another senior pilot said: "It is bad enough for an engine to explode in mid-air let alone lose so many secondary systems".
Investigators found shrapnel damage to the flaps, a huge hole in the upper surface of the left wing and a generator that was not working.
The crew could not shutdown the No. 1 engine using the fire switch.
As a result the engine's fire extinguishers could not be deployed.
Captain Richard de Crespigny, first officer Matt Hicks and Mark Johnson, the second officer, could not jettison the volume of fuel required for a safe emergency landing.
With more than 80 tonnes of highly volatile jet kerosene still in the 11 tanks -- two of which were leaking - they made an overweight and high speed approach to Changi Airport.
Without full hydraulics the spoilers - the hinged flaps on the front of the wings - could not be fully deployed to slow the jet.
The crew also had to rely on gravity for the undercarriage to drop and lock into place.
On landing they had no anti-skid brakes and could rely on only one engine for reverse thrust - needing all of the 4km runway at Changi to bring the jet to a stop.
The three crew have been interviewed by Australian investigators and cleared to return to duties.
Industry sources said the damage will almost certainly put the airline's flagship jet - the Nancy Bird-Walton - out of service for months.
Investigators found that an oil fire may have caused the engine to explode.
Details of the stricken jet's problems were revealed yesterday in an emergency directive by the European Aviation Safety Authority.
The authority made it mandatory for airlines with the now suspect Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engines to make checks for excess oil.
If not detected, excess oil can cause a fire and ultimately result in "uncontained" engine failure, with potential damage to the aeroplane and to people or property on the ground.
Qantas made it clear it will keep its six superjumbos grounded indefinitely and has rearranged flight schedules using substitute aircraft.
"The specific checks mandated by the directive were already being carried out by Qantas in conjunction with Rolls-Royce," it said.
"Qantas's A380 aircraft will not return to service until there is complete certainty that the fleet can operate safely."
WHAT WENT WRONG ON QF32
1 Massive fuel leak in the left mid fuel tank (there are 11 tanks, including in the horizontal stabiliser on the tail)
2 Massive fuel leak in the left inner fuel tank
3 A hole on the flap fairing big enough to climb through
4 The aft gallery in the fuel system failed, preventing many fuel transfer functions
5 Problem jettisoning fuel
6 Massive hole in the upper wing surface
7 Partial failure of leading edge slats
8 Partial failure of speed brakes/ground spoilers
9 Shrapnel damage to the flaps
10 Total loss of all hydraulic fluid in one of the jet's two systems
11 Manual extension of landing gear
12 Loss of one generator and associated systems
13 Loss of brake anti-skid system
14 No.1 engine could not be shut down in the usual way after landing because of major damage to systems
15 No.1 engine could not be shut down using the fire switch, which meant fire extinguishers would not work on that engine
16 ECAM (electronic centralised aircraft monitor) warnings about the major fuel imbalance (because of fuel leaks on left side) could not be fixed with cross-feeding
17 Fuel was trapped in the trim tank (in the tail)creating a balance problem for landing
18 Left wing forward spar penetrated by debris

[Radi K]

Wow, great job by the crew then!

[Brian Wilkes]

Must be a good airplane (A380) then to keep flying like the Memphis Belle!

[Ash W]

Goes to show what a well designed aircraft the A380 is, if it can still be brought home safley with all that damage and systems issues. Clearly Airbus has learned from previous incidents in other aircraft and applied that to the design of the beast.

[Philip Argy]

I must say I was under the impression that "containment" was a more rigorously applied requirement than appears from recent events to be the case. Given the close to catastrophic crippling caused by the ejection of so much high speed shrapnel I suspect that design rules are going to be tightened even further, and testing will go well beyond the classic firing of frozen turkeys into fan blades.

[Andrew M]

So how long til QF A380's are flying again..... This year ?

[Mick F]

Phillip, the chickens into the fan blades test is only for bird strikes. The test for blade containment is conducted by placing charges at the root of one fan blade and then detonating that charge to simulate a fan blade breaking from the root.

Hoping very very much that they're all back and working by March, I just paid several thousand dollars a few weeks ago to fly on them, :(.

Mick

[Andrew M]

I have 4 x SQA380 flights up the front in late Jan.....

Not happy if I am moved to an older 777 or 747.....

[Mark B]

Hoping very very much that they're all back and working by March, I just paid several thousand dollars a few weeks ago to fly on them, :(.


If the damage being reported is anything to go by, doesn't sound like Nancy Bird will be back by then.

The others, one would hope so!

[Brendan Lawrence]

For those of you who may not have seen this video on YouTube, I highly recommend you watch... It's the successful blade-off test of the Trent 900 engine conducted by Rolls-Royce prior to commissioning on the A380... Quite interesting, and as you can see; an effectively contained engine failure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j973645y5AA

Obviously events took a different path on the QF32. :(

[Montague S]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/12/3065263.htm

progress being made.

[Joe Frampton]

I have 4 x SQA380 flights up the front in late Jan.....

Not happy if I am moved to an older 777 or 747.....

Under the current circumstances, you will get whatever metal the airline turns up with that day... :eek:

[Philip Argy]

A bit odd to see the story circulating this afternoon that QF has 'old models' of the Trent 900 on its A380s and that the new model doesn't have the bearing oil leak problem that RR apparently designed out.

Airbus, probably a bit embarassed over the revelation, has offered to take the new Trent 900 models from its production line and ship them to QF so it can upgrade its fleet. There seems to be a serious customer relations problem that RR is going to have to deal with if the story is true and RR concealed from QF that it actually knew of the defect and changed the engine design without mentioning that to QF! There plainly should have been a recall on the flawed engines if RR knew what could happen.

[Richard B]

Big list of damage too..

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/qantas-scarebus-qf32-was-a-flying-wreck/story-e6frg12c-1225952575868

[Philip Argy]

Can be found here:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/newsroom/news-items/qantas-airbus-a380-singapore.aspx

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Interesting to see if OQG & OQH are still delivered (as scheduled) later this year.

Also interesting is what model Trent 900 has been supplied to those frames?

[Brian Hoy]

"Not happy if I am moved to an older 777 or 747.."
After my trip to the USA in the A380 a couple of months ago I'd take a 777 any day, even an older 747.

[Neil Hogbin]

British Airways are operating the Friday departure of QF30 using 744 G-CIVC. This will "kiss and turn" in HKG on Saturday morning with QF29 from Melbourne VH-OEG. The onward QF29 to London has been delayed until 10.30 from HKG to allow for the transfer of passengers.

[Torin Wilson]

I must say I was under the impression that "containment" was a more rigorously applied requirement than appears from recent events to be the case. Given the close to catastrophic crippling caused by the ejection of so much high speed shrapnel I suspect that design rules are going to be tightened even further, and testing will go well beyond the classic firing of frozen turkeys into fan blades.

I read on various sources that an engine failure can and must only be contained if it is a fan section failure. A turbine section failure is said to have too much energy for it to be possible to contain it, in terms of designing for it. I can't remember where I read this, so no link. But I'm sure someone will know or can use google.

[Mark Grima]

Hey guys,

Heard a report yesterday that if the wing does need replacing, that can only be done in France and that the damage to the wing may not be able to be patched up enough for the flight to France...implying this could be the first A380 write off!

I did hear this on a commercial TV channel so I do doubt the validity of the claim however is this true?

Personally I think Airbus will spare no expense in ensuring this bird flys again, a write off will not be wanted just 3 years into the aircrafts life. And I am sure QF will never want to write off (other then on their own terms of coarse) any aircraft named Nancy Bird-Walton.

Cheers

M

[Mark B]

Airbus have stated that the aircraft was going to be repaired.

[Jason H]

I've heard through the grapevines that OQA will be (or indeed already is) a write off. Would like to see what Airbus/Rolls Royce/Qantas will do if this is true.

[Sarah C]

That would be drastic - I am sure all parties would not want that to happen and will do everything to avoid that. If OJK can get its damaged repaired, you would hope Airbus have designed the A380 to have a wing that can be fixed if there is a significant engine failure.

Either way, QF and Airbus would be the most damaged by it - they would be the victims and would suffer the most to their reputation. Rolls would expect a very hefty bill thats for sure.

[Philip Argy]

The a/c did fly around for a couple of hours before landing in Singapore overweight and with a full passenger load. I'd take some convincing that it was unable to be flown empty to Toulouse for repairs, assuming that the assertion that it can't be repared in Singapore is true, which I also doubt.

[damien b]

Continuing to fly after the incident whilst still airborne is one thing, gaining engineering authority to fly (and convincing pilots to fly it) now that the damage is fully understood and known is totally different. My best bet would be a temporary repair in Singapore by Airbus and a one flight authority straight to Toulouse for a pernament repair.

[Damian N]

The a/c did fly around for a couple of hours before landing in Singapore overweight and with a full passenger load.

I wonder if this in itself placed additional stress and may have contributed to damage elsewhere beyond that caused by the initial debris?????:confused::confused::confused:

[Philip Argy]

I still can't conceive that a single damaged wing spar could imperil the load bearing capacity of the entire wing - I expect the design to embody a little more redundancy than that!

But a temporary repair in Singapore with an authority flight direct to Toulouse does seem to be a likely scenario if a permanent repair can't be performed in Singapore. If I were QF I'd probably want Airbus to guarantee the repair anyway so perhaps a Toulouse flight is inevitable.

[Malcolm Parker]

Looks like Rolls Royce is going to be busy over the next few weeks and months. SQ also going to be hit hard by this as well.

14 QF A380 engines to be replaced
ROLLS Royce on Fri night issued an update into the investigation into the QF32 engine explosion, saying the failure was “confined to a specific component in the turbine area of the engine”.
The company said it would replace the relevant module, with a service program which will “enable our customers progressively to bring the whole fleet back into service”.
About half of the 40 Trent 900 engines in service will be modified, including 14operated by Qantas, two at Lufthansa and 24 at Singapore Airlines, according to today’s Australian.
Rolls Royce will also implement a software change which would shut down the engine before the relevant part is in danger of disintegrating.

[Andrew M]

About 36 hours per engine change!

That is until they run out of engines to change with....

[Robert S]

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/airline-calls-in-flying-doctors-for-a380-hospital-line-20101115-17uf8.html

''When we identify that there's an engine that is a problem engine, that engine will be taken off-wing, and that engine will go through a program that puts those [latest] modifications back on it,'' Mr Joyce said.

''We have the aircraft on the ground so we're obviously taking engines off, as we speak. Rolls will be then telling us what the program is to get them through the 'mod program' [of technical updates] and this 'hospital' review.

''We need to have the plan from Rolls about when this can be done, when the components can be done, when the components can be provided.''

Work will be done in Rolls-Royce's engine facilities - one in Hong Kong and one in Britain. Engines will be airfreighted to the workshops from the grounded planes, two in Sydney and three in Los Angeles. They will then be modified and flown back for re-installation.

"We don't know at this stage what that time-frame's going to be," Mr Joyce said.

''That means we can't be definitive when the aircraft will be back in the air.''

There is also likely to be a shortage of the special cranes that lift and move the engines from the wings.

[Mark B]

Have Airbus engineers actually had access to assess if/how they are going to fix it? I thought that it was still under the control of investigators.

[Brett o]

Hi Mark

From the ATSB web site it states that they (ATSB), would work in collaboration with Airbus, Qantas and the Air Accident Investigation Bureau of Singapore . So to answer your question I am sure the Airbus engineers have had access to the aircraft.



http://www.atsb.gov.au/newsroom/news-items/qantas-airbus-a380-singapore.aspx

[Alex Lui]

It seems the first of the wet leases Qantas has asked Cathay to do started today.

B-LAG operated CX8100 (QF128) today and arrived at about 10am according to 16right.com. It operated CX8101 (QF127) leaving at QF127's normal time.

That's a fair few number of Cathay Birds in for the day though... CX111 was B-HLP, CX162 was B-HLS, CX8100 was B-LAG, then you've got CX100 which was B-HLR and then CX138.

That would explain the major delay QF128 had last night when the plane supposedly left on time from Sydney yesterday...

Alex.

[Greg McDonald]

Apparently now there are about 40 possible engine swaps on the worldwide A380 fleet to be done with up to 14 of these for Qantas. The engines are being taken from aircraft still on the assembly line.

[Philip Argy]

There have been a number of incidents in recent years where the continuation of power to the CVR has resulted in important infomation becoming overwritten. The ATSB comments on the A380 incident are pertinent:


Over 2 hours of cockpit audio was recovered. However, due to the failure of the No 1 engine to shutdown in Singapore, and therefore continuing power supply to the recorder, the audio at the time of the engine failure well over 2 hours before the No 1 engine could be shut down, was overwritten. That said, elements of the available audio are expected to be of assistance to the investigation.


There may be a case to be made for extending the capacity of CVRs to three hours, as well as an additional checklist item to manually depower the CVR as the crew leave the cockpit.

[Nigel C]

Giving the crew the option to disable the CVR? You'd want to be carefull as to what circumstances would allow such a shut down...

[Dan Collins]

These issues were raised earlier in the post, but it seems Qantas has taken some positive action from the QF32 incident with regard to social media.

They've started up a new Twitter account @QantasMedia - http://www.twitter.com/QantasMedia

Dan

[Greg McDonald]

Another article written today:

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/qantas-jet-could-have-exploded/story-e6frfq80-1225956388231

Actually says in the article that the passengers can count themselves lucky to be alive!!

[Kim F]

Without being technically across the root cause of the turbine blade failure and very grateful that catastrophic damage did not happen to the rest of aircraft, I wonder how difficult it would have been to determine the cause of the failure, if the aircraft had broken up in flight and crashed.

[Robert S]

They've started up a new Twitter account @QantasMedia - http://www.twitter.com/QantasMedia

Long overdue, but methinks they're off to a bad start... 4 tweets - 1 "hello world", 2 press release style fluff pieces and finally a bridge burner with an extremely narky comment about the AFL sponsorship.

QF ends AFL partnership. We have a history of supporting all Aussie sports & wont enter into exclusive arrangements with any sporting body.

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/follow-us/global/en still points to the feeble QFInsider account too.

[Daniel M]

There have been a number of incidents in recent years where the continuation of power to the CVR has resulted in important infomation becoming overwritten. The ATSB comments on the A380 incident are pertinent:



There may be a case to be made for extending the capacity of CVRs to three hours, as well as an additional checklist item to manually depower the CVR as the crew leave the cockpit.

With the continual growth in data storage sizes in consumer electronics, you'd think this would be something that could easily be fixed? I very much doubt that recording 14 hours or even more of high quality audio in digital format would barely come close to filling some basic hard drives...

(granted, basic hard drives aren't used in modern aircraft but a similar type)

[Scotty B]

There may be a case to be made for extending the capacity of CVRs to three hours,
a good idea.

as well as an additional checklist item to manually depower the CVR as the crew leave the cockpit.
That's a joke right?

[Philip Argy]

That's a joke right?

No, Scotty - there have been numerous incidences of important CVR being overwritten with ground crew chat, so it's obviously something that happens frequently enough to require a closer look at how to prevent it (assuming that a significant increase in CVR capacity doesn't happen swiftly).

[Nigel C]

So the crew turn it off during flight so they can talk about dating the bosses wife...then an incident happens and they forget to turn it back on. Great lot of good that does for an investigation:rolleyes:

Or, the following flight crew get on board and have no idea it's been turned off...then they have an incident. Great lot of good that does for an investigation:rolleyes:

Or......

The list of possible things to go wrong by giving the flight crew the option of turning it on or off is endless. Blind Freddy could see that.

[Ash W]

True, plus there are also the sinister reasons why it might be turned off. So guess the question is why is the recording time so limited, especially in this day and age?

[Owen H]

Because any incident that the pilot is still alive and talking about is not the target of the CVR.

[Darren Butterworth]

Hi Guys - Very bored, stuck in Bangkok waiting for the flight to Chennai and noticed noone had published these yet.
I've also got the Airbus ppt "A380 –QFA –MSN 014. ENGINE #2 FAILURE INCIDENT –OVERVIEW OF MAJOR DAMAGES" if you want to PM me.
__________________________________________________ _______
Damage ID: WU-1

PN: L57452496000 (outboard top panel per SRM 57-41-11, Figure 7),

Dimensions (approx): 650mm x 800mm

Number of damages in single area: 1

Dimensions to nearest datum (from approximate centre of damage): 300mm forward of Front spar, 400mm inboard of Rib 3.

Description of damage:
Damage is a single large penetration both the droop nose No. 2 and the wing topskin fixed topskin panels and D nose structure, which were simultaneously damaged after debris travelled through the lower bottom skin and exited at this point on the topskin. Damage to the internal structure at this location includes the drive rib 4 which is part of the leading edge structure (both inboard and outboard locations). Damage to the D nose at this location cannot be clearly defined as yet.

The drive motor for the droop nose located between the inboard and outboard rib 4 of the leading edge has been badly damaged upon impact and seems ot have been on the direct path of trajectory through the wing.

Further details of the internal damages will only be revealed after removal of the droop nose and further access to the leading edge can be gained.

Pictures of damage:
1207
Figure 1: WU-1 Perforation at topskin Rib 12 location
1208
Figure 2: WU-Overall view showing damage to droop nose and D nose (hidden)
1209
Figure 3: View showing location of damage relative to engine No. 2
1210
Figure 4; Close up of damage between at leading edge ribs 4 showing droop nose drive motor
1211
Figure 5:Forward view of engine and subsequent damage for this item.
need a new post....

[Darren Butterworth]

cont...
Damage ID: WU-2
PN: L57251309200 (Rib 9 Forward) Dimensions (approx): 450mm x 100mm Number of damages in single area: 1
Dimensions to nearest datum (from approximate centre of damage):
Located above and outboard of Rib 9 and above and aft of stringer No. 1, 100mm from front spar and 150 mm from stinger No. 2.

Description of damage:

A clearly defined perforation of the top skin resulting in the displacement of some (7)
topskin fasteners in the same area and located between the front spar and stringer No.
2 at Rib 9-10 A large chordwise crack is also emanating from the forward portion of the damage.
Internally, The Front spar has been penetrated and is damaged extensively, slightly outboard of Rib 9 while Rib 9 itself has suffered damage to the forward section has been penetrated close to the top skin

Pictures of damage:
1212
Figure 6: Location of damage WU-2
1213
Figure 7: Rib 9 section damaged
1214
Figure 8: Severed fuel pipe at frontspar/Rib 9
1215
Figure 9: Section of front spar damaged view in aft direction)
Damage ID: WU-3


PN: L57452198000 and L57452496000 (mid and outboard top panel per SRM 57-41-11, Figure 6 and 7 respectively).

Dimensions (approx): 500mm x 500mm

Number of damages in single area: 8

Dimensions to nearest datum (from approximate centre of damage): 200mm forward of Front spar along the edge of panel outboard top panel.

Description of damage:
Single damage on Panel L57452198000 with 6 damages on L57452496000 . All damages appear superficial on the outer surface of these panels with no
penetration of the honeycomb. There is also a slight bulge of the panel L57452496000 at the inboard edge.

Pictures of damage:
1216
Figure 10: Close up view of seven damage locations

[Darren Butterworth]

Damage ID: WU-4
PN: L57452496000 (Outboard top panel of inboard leading edge)
Dimensions (approx): 600mm x 600mm
Number of damages in single area: 12
Dimensions to nearest datum (from approximate centre of damage):

Located slightly forward of front spar between ribs 10 and 11 (aft part of the panel)

Description of damage:

Sevral damages to the surface of outboard top panel. 3 of the 12 damages show perforation of the panel with one damage still having part of the internal metallic structure lodged in the perforation.

A clearly defined perforation of the top skin resulting in the displacement of some (7)
topskin fasteners in the same area and located between the front spar and stringer No.
2 at Rib 9-10 A large chordwise crack is also emanating from the forward portion of the damage.
Internally, The Front spar has been penetrated and is damaged extensively, slightly outboard of Rib 9 while Rib 9 itself has suffered damage to the forward section has been penetrated close to the top skin

Pictures of damage:
1217
Figure 11: Overview showing all 12 damages
1218
Figure 12: Largest of the 3 skin perforations with metal still lodged in structure
1219
Figure 14: Perforation with metal lodged in structure

[Jason A]

First A380 flight to take off ex LAX in 11 hrs bound for Sydney. This will be a ferry flight. Rego unknown at this stage.

[Robert S]

Qantas pilots are compiling a report on the extent of the damage and have suggested systems unconnected with the left wing were also affected.

Hang on, who is compiling this report? :eek::rolleyes::)

[Mark Grima]

Because any incident that the pilot is still alive and talking about is not the target of the CVR.

Is this true? I would thought any major incident would see the CVR analysed regardless of the condition of the pilots?

Does anyone in the know have any idea how long this repair will take once the aircraft is released? Months? A year?

Cheers

M

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Watching the late news on SBS last night and they reported that a new wing will be installed on OQA in Singapore.
Don't know how true this is or do they mean part of the wing?
How will it be transported as when they had the series on building the A380 they had barges, special loaders etc.
We will have to wait and see.

[Nigel C]

First A380 flight to take off ex LAX in 11 hrs bound for Sydney. This will be a ferry flight. Rego unknown at this stage.

OQF

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

How about AN124 or AN225 to SIN.

Stuart

[Ash W]

Watching the late news on SBS last night and they reported that a new wing will be installed on OQA in Singapore.
Don't know how true this is or do they mean part of the wing?
How will it be transported as when they had the series on building the A380 they had barges, special loaders etc.
We will have to wait and see.

Hope the TV show "worlds toughest fixes" is going to be there. The show they did on replacing the tail of an aircraft in Paris was mighty interesting, I reckon replacing a wing even more so.

[Philip Argy]

On Friday 3 December 2010, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) will hold a media briefing to accompany the release of its preliminary factual investigation report into the 4 November 2010 engine failure onboard Qantas Flight QF32 over Batam Island, Indonesia.

Where: 62 Northbourne Avenue, Canberra City, ACT
(ATSB Central Office)

Time: 10.30am (AEDT), Friday 3 December 2010

[Andrew M]

Ignore ;)

[Philip Argy]

Here's what the ATSB issued this morning, ahead of tomorrow's release of its preliminary factual report on the whole incident:


The ATSB has issued a safety recommendation about potential engine problems in some Airbus A380 aircraft.
The safety recommendation identifies a potential manufacturing defect with an oil tube connection to the high-pressure(HP)/intermediate-pressure (IP) bearing structure of the Trent 900 engine installed in some A380 aircraft.
The problem relates to the potential for misaligned oil pipe counter-boring, which could lead to fatigue cracking, oil leakage and potential engine failure from an oil fire within the HP/pbring buffer space.
In response to the recommendation Rolls Royce, affected airline sand safety regulators are taking action to ensure the continued safe operation of A380 aircraft. The action involves the close inspection of affected engines and the removal from service of any engine which displays the suspected counter-boring problem.
The ATSB will hold a media briefing tomorrow (Friday 3 December 2010) at 10.30AM to accompany the release of its preliminary factual investigation report into the QF32 occurrence. ATSB Chief Commissioner Mr Martin Dolan will present the known facts gathered from the investigation and highlight the key safety issues that have resulted from the investigation to date.
The full safety recommendation is available via the ATSB website at AO-2010-089 (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2010/aair/ao-2010-089.aspx).

[Trevor Sinclair]

Here's think to this morning's report:http://atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2010/aair/ao-2010-089.aspx

[Philip Argy]

Here's the link to the actual report:
http://atsb.gov.au/media/2888854/ao-2010-089%20preliminary%20report.pdf#page=0

It is a remarkable description of the extent to which OQA was compromised after the uncontained failure of the no 2 engine. At the end of the day the aircraft had to be flown manually and literally nursed onto the runway without a flare, with reverse thrust on only no 3 engine, 50 tonnes above maximum landing weight, without ALB on outboard or nose wheels, and with a no 1 engine that could not be shut down from within the aircraft.

The disabling of essential mechanical, electrical, hydraulic and fuel system links came very close to fatally compromising the aircraft's ability to land safely. The massive uncontrollable leak of fuel in the vicinity of the no 1 engine that could not be shut down created a truly scary scenario the full implications of which only became clear after the event. Similarly the massive segments of turbine ejected in the inboard direction could have penetrated the fuselage more extensively than occurred, with consequential injury to passengers as well as the aircraft and its systems.

Having read the report again I am just left shaking my head in awe of the good airmanship that saved this aircraft and its passengers from a catastrophic fate.

Whilst at its most obvious level Rolls Royce has a lot to answer for, especially in relation to its knowledge of the design problems with the Trent 900s, Airbus too will need to take a hard look at the vulnerability of locating so many critical systems components in the forward portion of the wing without sufficient redundancy to overcome the consequences of an uncontained engine failure which, although rare, is by no means unheard of or unforeseeable.

Singapore Airport also deserves commendation for its professional and supportive handling of the incident both from an air traffic control and a fire service perspective.

[Montague S]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/qantas-court-blast-over-new-engine-rules/story-e6frf7l6-1225965414988

interesting article.

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Yep, saw the morning news and they were on about the first paragraph of the article 'only 80 passengers on the Pacific route - great for pax, 2 rows each!'.


This can only get ugly and RR have a lot of explaining to do.

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

With all that has gone on with the RR Trent 900 Engines, why doesn't Qantas look at the GP7200 Engine by Engine Alliance.
The is the same engine that EK uses, and has the same specs, regarding Thrust - 70,000lbs as the Trent 900's.

What are your thoughts

Stuart

[Nigel C]

Who's to say the Engine Alliance units don't have an underlying problem waiting to be exposed?

I presume, but happy to be corrected, that there'd be a bit of work needed to change engine types, such as software changes, the physical act of changing the engines (can they be clean swapped? I wouldn't think it would be straightforward?), the actual cost involved in acuiring new engines, staff retraining in engine management and maintenance etc.

[Grahame Hutchison]

I think that the Qantas version of the Trent 900s have a slightly higher power rating of 72,000lbs thrust, used for take off only on the long Sydney/Melbourne to Los Angeles route. The GP7200 might not cut it with the same loads.

[Montague S]

I don't know anything about engine settings etc, but I would have thought that the A380 would need more power taking off from SIN to LHR, than from say SYD to LAX, why? because of the stifling heat that comes with Singapore.

is it really a thrust issue? or is it the fact that SYD-LAX is over water?

[Ray P.]

I think that the Qantas version of the Trent 900s have a slightly higher power rating of 72,000lbs thrust, used for take off only on the long Sydney/Melbourne to Los Angeles route. ...

That's almost correct. I believe QF's Trent 972Bs are rated at around 80 000 lb thrust as opposed 76 000 lb on the other operators' Trent 970/Bs. The engines are essentially exactly the same, but software programming allow the engines to operate at a higher thrust rating. This would possibly make QF's 972B engines more vulnerable to the current issues in comparison to the 970/B engines. Interestingly, the GP7270 used by the other operators appears to have less thrust (74 000lb) than even the Trent 970/B, so probably isn't a viable option for QF as has been suggested.

[Philip Argy]

This may be an oversimplification of the situation, but:

1. As I understand it, LAX has shorter runways than SIN. As Qantas is the only airline operating fully laden A380s across the Pacific from LAX, the high take off weight requires thrust settings above those used from other airfields, and Rolls Royce specifically assured Qantas that those special requirements could be met with the modified version of the Trent 900 that Rolls Royce manufactured for the Qantas A380 fleet.

2. Now that Rolls Royce is asserting that the current Trent 900 engines used by Qantas cannot be safely used at the required thrust settings out of LAX, Qantas has the option of reducing the aircraft weight to accommodate Rolls Royce's revised thrust limit, or abandon the route. Since it would reduce the passenger load to 80 pax, it's little wonder that Qantas has taken A380s off the route until engines with the requisite level of SAFE thrust usage can be obtained.

3. As a result of Rolls Royce's conduct, it is now the subject of a legal claim by Qantas for misleading representations and for breach of contract.

4. As a Qantas shareholder, I am truly shocked by Rolls Royce's conduct, at least to the extent to which it appears from publicly available material.

[Montague S]

maybe they need to think about using the A380 via AKL? SQ will start using their A380 to LAX via NRT in late March.

[Philip Argy]

I want a direct flight when I travel thanks very much!

[Grant Smith]

It's not all about you Philip... :rolleyes:

[Montague S]

I want a direct flight when I travel thanks very much!

fantastic, get on QF 107, its a 744.

[Philip Argy]

Qantas needs to offer what passengers want. If Rolls Royce engines can't enable that to happen, what's the good of them?

[Philip Argy]

All I'm saying is that Qantas should not be restricted in what it offers the market because of Rolls Royce's failures. I understand the alternatives to direct flights but that doesn't mean it's OK for Qantas to be restricted to those options because the engines in its A380s can't handle the MTOW out of LAX.

[Mark B]

Qantas needs to offer what passengers want. If Rolls Royce engines can't enable that to happen, what's the good of them?

Qantas may need to get together and straighten its stories out:

Media Release 23 November:

This is an operational decision by Qantas and pilots still have access to maximum certified thrust if they require it during flight. It is not a manufacturer’s directive.

Statement in Herald Sun:

But the new rules imposed by Rolls-Royce since one of its Trent 900 engines exploded on a Qantas A380 near Singapore last month mean that the world's biggest passenger jet is not a commercial proposition on the airline's Australia-US route.

[Montague S]

Qantas needs to offer what passengers want. If Rolls Royce engines can't enable that to happen, what's the good of them?

and if they want non-stop, then there are a few options...if stopping at AKL means the fleet is making them money, then as a shareholder I would have thought that this would be a good thing?!

[Philip Argy]

Qantas' 23 November Media Release was issued before Rolls Royce issued its manufacturer's directive not to use maximum (72,000 lb) thrust on its Trent 972-84 model engines (being those fitted to Airbus A380-842 aircraft).

[Mark B]

Qantas' 23 November Media Release was issued before Rolls Royce issued its manufacturer's directive not to use maximum (72,000 lb) thrust on its Trent 972-84 model engines (being those fitted to Airbus A380-842 aircraft).

When was this directive by Rolls Royce made? Is it published anywhere?

[Geoff W]

I believe this is one HUGE mess. That is going to cost zillions. Sadly.

Have mentioned before I totally enjoyed my experience on the A380, how on earth QF will be compensated enough by RR for this total loss intrigues me.

I am interested in this fairly new (Friday) development from the report indicating a structural floor in the manufacturing design.

Whilst all this stuff can be done, I believe no worries.

QF will have A380s sitting on the ground that cant be used for some time. Let alone Nancy Bird even longer....

I expect and hope the new three impending deliveries will have had these design changes that will add to the QF opportunity to fly A380's east coast AUS to west coast USA unimpeded


Kind regards,

Geoff

[Greg McDonald]

I wonder if it's an option for Qantas to renegotiate the type of engine on their aircraft.

[Jason H]

I noticed that QF11/12 on Dec7 and Dec9 are to be operated by Air Tahiti A340. I couldn't exactly be happy if I were booked months ago on the A380 to go to that.

[Mark B]

...and an A330 via AKL on Dec 11. (although looks like QF108 coming back) Seems a 747 is unavailable for a few days.

[Andrew M]

Perhaps the 300+ people that Oprah is flying here is something to do with this TN charter ?

Not saying that the TN plane would EVER be used for Oprah's guests but perhaps they need the capacity?

[Philip Argy]

When was this directive by Rolls Royce made? Is it published anywhere?

As I understand what is recited in the Qantas litigation documents, RR advised Qantas:


As a further precaution, until further notice, limit the engine thrust usage to a maximum flex temperature of 37 degrees C, unless required for operational reasons

[Robert S]

For what it is worth, there is no AD published on the CASA website to that effect, that I can see.

EDIT: Nor the EASA website.

EDIT: Qantas Press Release from Friday:

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/details?ArticleID=2010/dec10/5050

With CASA's approval, two A380s have returned to service with Qantas voluntarily applying a range of conditions that include not operating the aircraft across the Pacific until further operational experience has been gathered.

[Montague S]

I wonder if it's an option for Qantas to renegotiate the type of engine on their aircraft.

Qantas spokeswoman was on ABC 24 the other morning and categorically said that this was not an option.

[Philip Argy]

For what it is worth, there is no AD published on the CASA website to that effect, that I can see

This Herald-Sun report refers to the litigation documents in these terms:


QANTAS is alleging in a multi-million-dollar damages claim against Rolls-Royce that it could now carry only 80 passengers across the Pacific in its Airbus 380s, under new operating rules for their troubled engines.
The airline states in Federal Court papers that it bought the Airbus superjumbos because they would carry 450 passengers and a payload of 60,900kg from Australia to Los Angeles.
But the new rules imposed by Rolls-Royce since one of its Trent 900 engines exploded on a Qantas A380 near Singapore last month mean that the world's biggest passenger jet is not a commercial proposition on the airline's Australia-US route. (my emphasis)

[Philip Argy]

Rolls Royce appears to have added another $1 million to its damages bill by fitting a defective engine to the yet-to-be-delivered A380:


Qantas is facing fresh frustrations over its fleet of A380s after a defect was found in a new engine at a factory in France.

A possible faulty oil tube in one of the new superjumbo's Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engines has forced the manufacturer to delay slightly the transfer of ownership of the next superjumbo to Qantas at Airbus's plant in Toulouse, according to a leaked email.

"One step forward and two back! We can't take a trick in getting more aircraft into the air and back into service," Qantas's fleet manager said in the email to pilots obtained by the Sydney Morning Herald.

[Andrew M]

Another PR stuff up for RR

Very disappointing.

Using http://plane.spottingworld.com/A380_production_list as a reference

The next 3 A380 deliveries had their First Flights on:

MSN047 - 6/8/2009
MSN050 - 28/8/2009
MSN055 - 16/7/2010

Depending on engine changes, I assume that MSN 047 has the problem being the older "model"

[Sarah C]

Depending on engine changes, I assume that MSN 047 has the problem being the older "model"

Well it had the 'older' engines installed, where as the newer ones don't have the issue. MSN47 was originally schedulled to arrive in November.

[Brian Hoy]

What arrived in Sydney from LAX at 09.00 this morning as flt. qf6022? Nothing on Flightaware that i can see.

[Bernie P]

Not sure IF this has been posted elsewhere, but interesting...

EXCLUSIVE – Qantas QF32 flight from the cockpit
On 4 November Qantas flight QF32, an Airbus A380 outbound from Singapore, ran into serious problems when a turbine on its Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine suffered an uncontained failure. We caught up with one of the five pilots onboard, who describes how the crew professionally dealt with the incident, the sequence of events, and how the most dangerous period was after they had landed...

It goes on a LOT further, so HERE (http://www.aerosocietychannel.com/aerospace-insight/2010/12/exclusive-qantas-qf32-flight-from-the-cockpit/) is the link...

[Geoff W]

Whilst the crews actions have NEVER been questioned.

In my view this supports the fantastic job they did under extreme pressure and conditions.

Thanks for this Bernie

Kind regards,

Geoff

[Mark Grima]

Great find Bernie.

Enjoyed the read, I don't know how it is possible to stay composed in such stressful situations.

A question regarding the expereince of the crew? I am presuming that all crew (QANTAS) on the A380 have similar hours, would it be correct to say that the 2nd officer would of been a captain on other types, most recently the A330 and has just recently started A380 conversion training (thus being 'demoted' down the ranks until he complete the conversion training), or does it not work that way?

Cheers

M

[Radi K]

Really good read - thanks ..

Pretty amazing to see pics from the flight deck in the public domain. They did a great job.

[Brett o]

I heard in a podcast that with the 5 members of this particular crew (QF 32) there was over 100 years of experience :)

Mark to answer you question pls go to the http://www.planecrazydownunder.com/
A380 podcast as their interview with a Qantas captain answers your question perfectly

[Philip Argy]

Thanks heaps, Bernie, for that excellent link. The only aspect that doesn't gel with the ATSB preliminary report is the length of time it took to shut down engine no 1 - 2 hours according to the ATSB but 5 hours according to the Evans interview. The other aspect of interest is that it took an hour for the stairs to reach the a/c at the end of the runway - I hadn't seen that reported earlier either.

Whilst Evans says that a normal cockpit crew would have achieved the same outcome, the confidence that comes from having the extra experience in the cockpit can't be underestimated, especially given the mad ECAM messages that they chose to ignore by consensus. I'm not sure a consensus of two is as comforting as a consensus of five! Those guys really did a first class job of flying a seriously compromised aeroplane.

[Nigel C]

The other aspect of interest is that it took an hour for the stairs to reach the a/c at the end of the runway - I hadn't seen that reported earlier either.

You'd typically find that in an emergency, resources such as stairs are only called for when the area is safe. No point having them use up valuable hardstand and possibly getting in the way when they're not needed.

[Philip Argy]

As I read the Evans interview, it wasn't the delay in calling for the stairs so much as the physical speed at which they travelled to where the a/c was at the far end of the runway. I guess it would be similar to waiting for stairs in Sydney to get to the far end of 16L.

[Greg McDonald]

From SMH this morning:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-hijacks-rollsroyce-claim-20101209-18rfn.html

[Nigel C]

As I read the Evans interview, it wasn't the delay in calling for the stairs so much as the physical speed at which they travelled to where the a/c was at the far end of the runway. I guess it would be similar to waiting for stairs in Sydney to get to the far end of 16L.

I haven't seen any particularly fast stairs lately...they might have company policy (or perhaps a govenor) which dictates how fast they can go? I'm sure a ground handler here can detail the local policies?

[Jayden Laing]

Originally posted by Nigel C
they might have company policy (or perhaps a govenor) which dictates how fast they can go? I'm sure a ground handler here can detail the local policies?

The one's at Virgin Blue need to be pulled by the baggage tug if they need relocating so your automatically limited to 20-30km/h but you dont want to be going that fast with a set of stairs in the first place :D

[steve k]

most motorized steps (small truck mounted) are probably good for 60 + kph, Alpha catering trucks on the road are governed at 96 kph

[Nathan Long]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K05NgDMz2r4

[Grahame Hutchison]

Love It :D

The fire tender won the Top Gear challenge, probably a good thing for QF32.

If the catering truck had won, they may have been throwing smoked salmon and cream puffs into the No. 1 engine to stop it.

[Sarah C]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K05NgDMz2r4

That is funny on so many levels :D

[Kieran Wells]

That is funny on so many levels :D

I agree absolutely classic... had so many laughs at it.. Now for it to happen in sydney..lol

[Robert Stockdill]

Love It :D

The fire tender won the Top Gear challenge, probably a good thing for QF32.

If the catering truck had won, they may have been throwing smoked salmon and cream puffs into the No. 1 engine to stop it.

Smoked salmon and cream puffs? Can't be a Qantas catering truck....
:)

[Philip Argy]

Ben Sandilands has written this interesting blog entry:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2010/12/12/truth-and-consequences-for-rolls-royce/

The estimate of A$500 million total cost to RR attributable to the QF32 incident sounds quite plausible to me.

[Steve Crook]

Am I correct in remembering that the cabin crews working Qantas' A380s were specifically trained for and work solely on the A380s? If so, what has happened to the cabin crews while the planes have been grounded? I presume that some would have training in other aircraft and could keep flying, but what about any others?