Qantas centre seat back in business

[Benny Zheng]

Well finally some answers as to why EBO/P has 2-3-2 business class whereas EBM/N has 2-2-2. EBO/P also has the PTV built to the seat infront whereas as M/N are retractable.

[Gareth U]

The 127cm pitch referenced by The Australian is for the internationally-configured 1-2-2 763s. Business pitch is around 97cm (37-38") on domestic 763s. Nothing like comparing apples to oranges.

I think Qantas should have a dedicated mid-haul business hard product for Perth and Tasman (similar to the Dreamtime seats) and a more densely configured business product for short haul and secondary routes (CNS/DRW), such as SAA (2-3 fixed seating on narrowbodies).

[Andrew M]

I thought Steve Creedy was one of the better journalists in aviation, but his reference to incorrect details such as seat pitch and using Seat Guru as a reference have pretty much shattered my thoughts now.

[Kelvin R]

To be fair however, I thought the Int configured 763 and 332/ 333 had been deployed on SYD-PER runs, with the domestic 332 only recently taking over? I know I would prefer an international config plane over the domestic J experience, however as long as it isn't a 734. That is really short changing PAX on a SYD-PER or v.v. flight.

[Brad Myer]

Apparently QF are aware of the issues and complaints and are looking at "fixing" it.

The middle seats are only on the 2 newest domestic A332s, the other 2 domestic A332s are in 2-2-2 config with a wider seat and AVOD in the armrest.

Thanks

[Arthur Boy]

Maybe QF's 'awareness' has something to do with the oppositions upcoming product?

Just maybe.....

[Andrew P]

so some at DJ is leaking their future product to QF, better call in ASIO

[Mark B]

The middle seats are only on the 2 newest domestic A332s, the other 2 domestic A332s are in 2-2-2 config with a wider seat and AVOD in the armrest.


THe problem with AVOD in the armrest is that it does not allow gate to gate use of the IFE, which seems to be coming in now.

[Owen H]

Just out of interest, are these comments coming from anyone who has actually used the seat?

Or is this based on the one photo doing the rounds?

It is only my opinion, but the seat is very comfortable (far more so than the others), the IFE setup is far better and easier to use, and there is nothing wrong with the seat pitch at all. Comparing it to an international 767 seat pitch is rediculous. The seat is more than wide enough (the aisles seem a little narrower to accomodate).

At the end of the day, I'd rather have a seat that is comfortable for my domestic travel than one that looks great but gives you a sore back.

[Owen H]

Why is it not competitive? I don't understand. Not competitive with what? It is a huge improvement on the previous domestic A330 configuration.

You think a business is going to arrange all its business travel based on a photo of business class in a magazine?

Really? How about price and acceptable service for that price?

Personally, I think a comfortable seat that has been designed to save space, yet be nice to sit in (even for long periods) while having an easy to use IFE and adequate legroom is what people want. Sure, it'd be nice to have more. But this is a domestic product. It has to be practical, light, and allow an airline to make money while offering reasonable fares.

I also think you're being a bit premature. Why would you arrange a media fanfare and product launch when you've only got two aircraft so far configured, and the opposition hasn't revealed its product yet?

If the businesses are really upset by it, I'm sure Qantas will be the first to know.

[Ash W]

Owen - fair call - but you're missing the point.

The seat may well be 'practical' or 'comfortable' - but far from innovative or competitive.

This is a seat that should be called 'Premium Economy' - not business.



Liam, agree with Owen, what is not competitive about the seat or the Qantas domestic business product as a whole? Who is Qantas competing with? As for it being premium economy, well if your comparing to long haul then yes it is premium economy, but this is domestic. You don't expect Skybeds and all the trappings of international business class do you? Maybe Qantas should take the lead of BA and give their domestic products different names so as to not create confusion or false expectations.

Having lived in Europe for the past few years one thing I have learned is how good we have it in Australia. What Qantas has done with these two a/c would absolutely and utterly kill any airline in Europe on comparable length routes. Take SYD-PER for example, that is like BA flying LHR-ATH, LHR-DME or LHR-ISB. On these routes BA flies either an A320 family A/C or a 767-300. The A320 uses convertible seats, with NO seat pitch difference between business and economy. If your on the LHS of the A/C they will move the armrests inwards making a wider seat, but on the RHS no such luck, you need to make do with an empty middle seat, though up until about 2 years ago you might have found someone in there too. BA advertise that they have IFE on these routes, but considering they only have a few A320's family with IFE I have found it is a 50/50 chance of getting one with IFE. Even then IFE comprises a movie on a central screen and some poor audio channels.

On the 767 the seats are the same through out the aircraft with the same pitch. An arbitrary decision is made as to where business ends and economy starts. I sat in business once on a BA767 7 rows past the 2nd set of entry doors. Sitting there it really makes you wonder the value of business class, because at the end of the day the ONLY difference between business and economy was the meal. On this flight I was given a customer survey form, my only comment was it was the most expensive meal I have ever had. Someone from BA called me latter to see what I meant and when I told them she advised it wasn't an uncommon complaint. As for IFE, well all the 767's are IFE capable, but your looking a main projector screen, or a 2" screen in the front rows. The audio is terrible and often it doesn't work.

Other European airlines on route lengths comparable to Qantas domestic are not much better, and again remember this is a product they are selling as business class.

Move back to Qantas and tell me what is really wrong with what Qantas offers on domestic routes, and what is wrong with 2-3-2 on an A330?

PS just did a Google for Virgin America first class and the seat looks like an updated version of the Millennium seat that Qantas has been using for years, just with more legroom and white leather.

[Andrew M]

As for being satisfied with the seat.

You are comparing it to a 734 seat which is far from a normal comparison.

Comparing it to a 767 would be more accurate.

[Andrew M]

Yes and you sound like a QF spokesperson !

[Ash W]

Yes and you sound like a QF spokesperson !

Why is it that anyone that says something positive is branded as a QF lover or spokesman?

[Gareth U]

The product was released on 01 March and was made "public" via Qantas.com (http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/details?)

Some facts on the seats for economy and business:

- IFE installed is the Panasonic eX2 (500 + entertainment options and is touchscreen);
- USB port;
- Business seat is a wider seat back, wider seat width of 22 inches, cocktail table, ergonomic cushions, extendable leg rest with fold out footrest; and
- Economy enjoy an extra wide 18.1 inch width seat and sliding pan during recline.

The press release to which you refer is for the Sicma J seat (EBM/N), which is 2-2-2 and over 2" wider than the Recaro seats in 2-3-2 (EBO/P).

[Brad Myer]

Any plans to have all the domestic A332s in the same config with the same seats?

Also what seats will the new Jetconnect and domestic B73Hs due this year be delivered with?

Thanks

[Gareth U]

The change between the Sicma and Recaro seats is a soft change recently conducted by Qantas with EBM/N. I believe the Jetconnect 738's are fitted with the Sicma seat.

So EBM/N are moving to the Recaro seat?

Qantas advertised its new domestic seat products in the press release to which we are referring. The Business seat (hence product) has changed considerably on the 332s.

I think the Recaro seat in seven abreast is fine for the East Coast. Perth flights are just a bit too long. Emirates continue to get away with 2-3-2 on their 332s and 343s, BUT pitch was increased from 42" to 60" some years ago. 35-36" just is not enough to compensate for the decreased width on longer sectors, in my opinion.

[Ash W]

If the seat width remains the same as mentioned in the first or 2nd post then what difference to comfort etc does have an extra seat in the middle really make? Also 4-5 hours east west isn't all that far, look at what is offered elsewhere on the same routes.

[Owen H]

35-36" just is not enough to compensate for the decreased width on longer sectors, in my opinion.


Decreased width? It is narrower than the enormous Sicma seat (which is far too wide IMHO), but it would be the same as the 767 domestic seat. The aisles are narrower to accomodate it.

[Geoff W]

Hey Owen,

Dont be offended.

NO seat is too wide in my opinion.

Dont give em ideas and no I am not overweight.

I would rather walk down a narrower aisle any day.

Kind regards,

Geoff

[Andrew M]

Indeed Geoff!

I can't wait to see what Virgin come up with for their business class launch shortly!

I wonder if the A330 will have a more premium product than the B737's