Chilean Volcanic Ash Cloud

[Brock Little]

The Cordón Caulle Volcano in the Andes mountain range in Chile as you all have seen on TV or other media outlets has erupted, and its ash cloud has started to affect domestic and international Australian & New Zealand flights. Yesterday QF63 had to make a tech stop in Perth due to this ash cloud, and LAN and Aerolineas Argentinas flights have been severely delayed as well.

Today, JQ731 and 732 OOL-HBA-OOL have been cancelled, as the ash cloud is expected to be over Tasmania by noon today.

The Bureau of Meteorology has a regularly updated map of where the ash cloud is, in the Darwin VAAC area: http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDD65290.shtml

The Wellington VAAC also shows the ash cloud over South Island in New Zealand here: http://vaac.metservice.com/vag/1507-141-2011_8

Hopefully we won't see this affecting alot of flights in our airspace!

[Jaryd stock]

ABC news has just reported that All QF flights to Tasmania are canceled. JQ, VA have not decided yet if there going to cancel flights.

[David Ramsay]

It has been interesting to watch the tracks that trans Tasman a/c have been taking today.

Both QF and NZ have flown tracks well north of normal. YSSY-NZWN flights have taken the normal YSSY-NZAA track as far as 200 DME NZAA then tracked to NZWN. An earlier NZCH-YSSY flight tracked to 200 DME NZAA on the NZAA-YSSY track and then joined it.

NZ175 NZAA-YPPH is tracking via YSSY. It normally tracks south of YMML.

However two SQ flights, NZAA-WSSS and NZCH-WSSS, are both tracking via YMML. SQ286 (NZAA-WSSS) normally tracks via YSSY or nearby.

[Andrew Somers]

Qantas have cancelled all flights out of Melbourne today that depart after 6pm

[David Ramsay]

JQ have cancelled all domestic flights within New Zealand today. NZ are still flying. There was a very arrogant sounding QF/JQ spokesperson on radio not long ago stating that other airlines may take the risk of flying under the ash cloud but QF and JQ will not.

I just noticed QF17 (YSSY-SAEZ) tracked north of LHI and then over the very northern part of New Zealand, currently about 300 miles east of NZAA.

[Brock Little]

Just saw on the news that JQ have now decided to cancel all flights out of MEL from 6pm tonight too.

[Oliver Gigacz]

Just herd on the news that Melbourne Airport will be closed from 6PM. However they could have been mistaken with Jetstar cancelling their services.

[Paul McFarlane]

I think the airport closing thing is just a media slip of the tongue. From what I hear QF, JQ and TT have suspended MEL ops. DJ were waiting for the 1730 Bureau of Meteorology update.

[Brock Little]

Looks like DJ have now cancelled all Melbourne-orginating flights. All flights from MEL to OOL have now been cancelled for the night.

[Brent L]

Shocking! just checked the Melbourne airport website, all flights now cancelled.

[Nigel C]

The ash cloud is expected to enter NSW sometime tomorrow apparently.

[Geoff W]

YMML site a very sad site to see tonight.

I am intrigued, in general what happens to tonights /early am Monday International flights.

Am aware about the QF ones, however there are others inbound & outbound that will be in the YMML area, around this 2200 (local) that I have read when this cloud is supposed to in the area. I am sure it wont be a 5 minute ah it's gone now.

One sad case in point is EK from AKL, along with many, many others this morning it was severley delayed inbound due to the great fog. Now it is hours late.. That is after its reasonably generous turnaround in AKL.

It now along with other carriers potentially could be affected by the cloud. (Personal view no information re this)

I am interested how this is going to happen, given the shutdown by the domestics. I understand the airport is NOT shutdown.

If I hear one story about someone being inconvenienced by the domestics action, I swear I will scream. Yeah, I really should get ready shouldnt I?

It could be fairly messy tomorrow (Mon) on several fronts, the ash cloud, the current backlog, we have a real chance of a fog again tomorrow and tomorrow will be when all the long weekenders want to come home. No tolerance at all for what has happened today

Challenging day ahead I suspect.

Kind regards,

Geoff

[John Arena]

I hope the cloud doesn't affect YSSY anytime soon. I depart on VS0201 YSSY-VHHH on the 23rd, i hope the cloud doesnt have any impact on my flight, as my holiday is already jam-packed as is:confused::confused:

John

[Brock Little]

I hope the cloud doesn't affect YSSY anytime soon.
John

You should be fine John, the cloud is expected to go as far north as CBR last time I heard.

[Nigel C]

With the current east coast low developing near SE Queensland, and it's forecast to track south during the week, I look forward to seeing how that will mix things up with this ash cloud.
And let's not forget, the volcano responsible for this is still quite active.

http://reg.bom.gov.au/info/vaac/cordon_caulle_image.shtml
This link shows the ash cloud via infrared.

[Oliver Gigacz]

I hope all domestic flights are back to normal by Wednesday, I am in Sydney for a day trip.

[Matt_L]

Oliver,

Might be clear by then- but backlog is gonna be enormous. Check with your airline before you go to the airport..

At this stage the BOM website link is showing the cloud to hang around till AT LEAST 4pm EST tomorrow Monday 13th. As you can imagine though near 2 days worth of travellers will be looking to get on flights as well..

[Oliver Gigacz]

I am leaving in the on a 1PM JQ flight to SYD and returning on a late QF flight. Hopefully won't to be bad.

Maybe QF will put a few 744s on MEL-SYD flights in the next few days.

[Jason H]

All International flights out of Melbourne tonight departed, aside from QF29.

[Radi K]

All International flights out of Melbourne tonight departed, aside from QF29.

But they all flew under the ash cloud (FL200)

[Gerald D]

Notice this morning ANZ501 AKL-CHC flying at 18000ft!

[David Ramsay]

SQ282 departed NZAA last night for WSSS requesting FL180.

More ignorant media reporting (not related to above) ...

The cloud was circulating above 6100m, meaning most planes could avoid danger by flying lower than normal.

A 737 will usually operate at about 23,000ft (7000m) so they will be able to fly but they will use more gas.

[Adam.S]

Notice this morning ANZ501 AKL-CHC flying at 18000ft!

Last night's EK407, Auckland-Melbourne flight flew into MEL on what looked to be the normal MEL-AKL flight path however flying at 18,000ft also.

The few other flights into Melbourne from New Zealand yesterday and this morning are using a more northern flight path, entering/exiting the Australian coastline over Wollongong.

[Andrew Coggan]

VH-VOW is cruising at FL170 on a MEL-SYD run, just crossing the border now. But VH-VBY has just departed MEL for a MEL-SYD flight and its climbing through FL295 just overhead Bonnie Doon. :confused:

[Adam.S]

^
I saw that too, VH-VBY on DJ829. The flight crew must be feeling lucky ;)


Regarding the Qantas staff who would have worked on the many international and domestic flights which are cancelled today; do they still get a day's worth of pay despite not working today, given they are on an annual salary, or do they go unpaid as a result of the circumstances?

[Ryan N]

Thought I'll throw it in here!!! :D

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/1200-cab-to-sydney-beats-the-ash-20110613-1fzot.html

[Raymond Rowe]

Saw one of the ANZ A320 flying nearly all the way to sydney before heading out to sea and back towards CHC.

[Oliver Gigacz]

News of a possible second cloud over the next few days. Might not be going to Sydney on Wednesday after-all.

[Alex Lui]

I just got into Canberra from Auckland with Air NZ on NZ703. The aicraft was pretty much packed. Was lucky to get on this flight home with Qantas cancelling everything and saying travel insurance will cover your hotel accommodation for another night.

Anyway, the captain said the flight path would see the flight fly up to Noumea, take a left and then climb to normal altitude before descending into Sydney. IIRC we cruised a lot of the flight at about 7000m and then got up to about 10000 or so before descending. It was a fine flight, had no problems. Good to be home though. :)

Alex.

[Jason H]

Looks like a QF744 VH-OJT is operating this evening to clear the backlog. QF1121/1122 SYD-MEL-SYD

[Oliver Gigacz]

A 744 is also operating QF414,QF431 tomorrow.

[Guy W]

I am at MEL now waiting for my QF494 back to SYD. The terminal is actually normal except there is a bit of a queue at the service desk, presumably disrupted pax rebooking flights.

Good job QF! :)

[Radi K]

VH-OJT also flying QF1123 SYD-MEL

Also VH-OGB flying QF6020 SYD-NAN

Lots of extra DJ sectors MEL-Tassie and MEL-SYD tomo.

[Radi K]

QFA18 (EZE-SYD) stopped in NAN today!

Also pretty damn impressive - QFA26 flying LAX-SYD direct! (A332!)

[Leon H]

was this done fully loaded with pax?

[Oliver Gigacz]

How is it looking for the next few days, are more disruptions expected on Wednesday or Thursday?

[Ryan N]

Qantas have cancelled all ADL flights today.

[Brett o]

Normally the Sydney Perth flights and visa versa go over Adelaide. Are these flights going further north today or still going near Adelaide ?

[Jason H]

I saw a couple of MEL-PER flights fly north from Melbourne to the NSW/VIC border, and then west and north of Adelaide. www.planefinder.net shows the location of the ash cloud as well

[Kirk C]

QF63 YSSY-FAJS has been stopping in Perth

[Philip Argy]

I don't really understand how two airlines can come to the opposite conclusion about whether it is safe to fly over, under or around the ash cloud. Is DJ taking more risk than QF/JQ, or is QF using the ash as an excuse to save money by cancelling flights? I really don't know but there must be an explanation other than just a simplistic differential risk tolerance.

[Brock Little]

Is QF using the ash as an excuse to save money by cancelling flights?

Maybe not saving money from non-profitable flights, but saving money from the extra fuel usage at lower cruising altitudes? This was a comment on one of the articles covering the situation, and I believed it was an interesting thought. But will the costs of rebooking people onto other flights or refunding them, etc. be less than the costs of the extra fuel used in cruise? In addition they may lose other business travellers to Virgin Australia as they are safely flying when Qantas chooses not to.

Every airline is different too, and whether they choose to fly or not is their decision.

Just my thoughts :)

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Looks like Perth will be affected by the 'second wave?' as I heard on Ch9 a short while ago that Virgin will stop flights in/out of Perth at 1pm Perth time.

[David Ramsay]

I don't really understand how two airlines can come to the opposite conclusion about whether it is safe to fly over, under or around the ash cloud. Is DJ taking more risk than QF/JQ

It's not just DJ. NZ are still flying and most of the other trans Tasman carriers are too. There have been some bizarre tracks, some of them almost twice the normal distance but they are still flying under and around the cloud.

The only ones not flying at all are QF and JQ .. go figure. :(

[Mark B]

Is DJ taking more risk than QF/JQ, or is QF using the ash as an excuse to save money by cancelling flights?

I thought about this, but I would have thought that mass cancellation of flights would be the more expensive option overall.

But I could be wrong!

[James K]

SAFETY OVER SCHEDULE



I have been asked by a number of people in the past few days why Qantas has cancelled flights when other carriers, including Virgin and Air New Zealand continue to operate.

Qantas does not take the decision to cancel flights lightly but I have no doubt that our actions over the past few days have been correct and in the best interests of our employees and customers.

Our standards, policies and risk assessments are different from those of other airlines.

Our decision not to fly in the presence of volcanic ash is based on assessments by our Critical Operational Event Group (COEG), chaired by my Head of Flying Operations and reporting to me. The Group meets regularly to review the situation and uses all available information.

We also have a Bureau of Meteorology expert permanently based in our operations centre, and we work closely with the Volcanic Ash Advisory Centre (VAAC) in Darwin.

Unlike the meteorological authorities in Europe, Australia’s VAAC does not have the ability to calculate ash density so we are unable to access definitive measurements. Our policy is not to fly into areas where the concentration of volcanic ash is unknown. Without certainty about the density of the ash, we do not consider it safe to fly.

Volcanic ash cloud poses a significant threat to aircraft. It can enter an engine, turn into molten glass as a result of the high temperatures and potentially cause the engine to fail. Other risks include windscreens becoming opaque, contamination of cabin air and hydraulic systems and erosion of aircraft parts.

Our policy is therefore to avoid areas of volcanic ash until we consider that it is 100 per cent safe to fly.

This situation is dynamic and we are continuously reviewing the information we receive from the VAAC and our own experts. As soon as it is operationally appropriate to resume services to affected ports, we will do so. But we will not compromise on our commitment to the highest safety standards.

Capt Peter Wilson


Latest schedule update:

On Wednesday 15 June:
Flights in and out of Adelaide, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne will operate as scheduled. Qantas has put additional services out of Adelaide to clear the backlog
Flights to and from Perth have been cancelled from 1pm local time today
Flights to and from Tasmania have been suspended for the remainder of the day
Flights to and from New Zealand have been suspended for the remainder of the day
Flights to and from Johannesburg have been confirmed
Flights to and from Buenos Aires (QF17, QF18) have been postponed by 24 hours.

[Jason H]

I would've thought the cancellations would be so the media don't hound QF for flying in what they would call "unsafe and hazardous conditions" regardless of other carriers flying or not.

[Ash W]

The only ones not flying at all are QF and JQ .. go figure. :(

And to add to the theories now Virgin Australia. (to Perth at least)

[Justin L]

Virgin stated though that the ash cloud over Perth is lower than in southeastern Australia, hence their decision to cancel flights to/from Perth.

[David Ramsay]

Originally Posted by David Ramsay
The only ones not flying at all are QF and JQ .. go figure.

And to add to the theories now Virgin Australia. (to Perth at least)


Fair enough to cancel flights on a route where there is a specific issue but the QF/JQ thing is over the top (no pun intended!)

[Greg McDonald]

With QF heavily pushing the 'safety issue' reason for not flying but all other airlines still flying and servicing their customers, QF are now being looked at by a lot of people as simply having failed their customers again. I have a lot of contact with upper corporate types and a majority of them are actively looking at changing their corporate allegiance to Virgin as they've had enough of Qantas and are of the opinion that Virgin, at least in their newer aircraft, have now well and truly got the upper hand in both product and service.

[Radi K]

This page shows the latest graphic of the vol ash clouds and at what levels

http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDD65290.shtml

Virgin, Air NZ, EK etc decided to fly UNDER the ash (which was FL230 or higher) but QF/JQ did not. They decided to fly AROUND the ash. Obviously for some destinations like HBA/LST/ADL it was not possible.

The Virgin approach was safe (in my opinion) and conservative based on the already conservative location of the ash. No pilot reports have been received from any of the major airlines to suggest any aircraft has been affected by ash.

The new cloud over Perth is down to FL150, thus making it unsafe to fly near. You can't fly MEL-PER etc at 10,000ft

Hope that information provides more clarity has to why the airlines have taken different approaches. CASA is happy with the way both QF and DJ are handling the situation.

For the record, DJ also has senior BOM meteorologist on staff and speak with VAAC every 4 hours for the latest updates.

[Greg McDonald]

I don't agree with that assessment - volcanic ash is not something to take lightly, safety first is the best way.

Qantas would also have failed its customers if they had a plane go down due to volcanic ash. So they are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

Not really the same thing. Virgin canceled a few flights to Perth today as the advice was that the ash cloud was much thicker. They didn't cancel for days at a time when they were the only airline to do so. Leaving out Virgin, do you really think the likes of Emirates and SQ would have flown if they considered there to be any risk at all? Maybe the advice given to Qantas was interpreted wrongly by them. You have to wonder where they're at when they are the ONLY airline to cancel as many flights as they did.

[Brad M]

Not really the same thing. Virgin canceled a few flights to Perth today as the advice was that the ash cloud was much thicker. They didn't cancel for days at a time when they were the only airline to do so. Leaving out Virgin, do you really think the likes of Emirates and SQ would have flown if they considered there to be any risk at all?

exactly...
emagine if QF had another engine issue or something go wrong , while flying over the past few days..media would of had a field day and tarnished their reputation even more....

with QF crying over fuel prices, doing an east/west crossing at 19,000ft like DJ has been doing , certainly wouldn't be an option for cost cutting..

obviously DJ, SQ , CX etc etc aren't going to fly if it's going to damage their airframes or engines, or risk the safety of passengers...

[Jason H]

obviously DJ, SQ , CX etc etc aren't going to fly if it's going to damage their airframes or engines, or risk the safety of passengers...

As far as I am aware, ash particles are not easy to visibly see (and impossible to see on weather radars), and they can cause irreversible damage to turbine blades, something that might not be found until an engine overhaul. So, it very well could be damaging their engines, especially some that I have seen that are flying near and below the ash cloud, rather than around it.

[Owen H]

There's more to it than just ash - there are a lot of operational issues surrounding the whole event.

For a start, to cruise around at those levels (FL180 and below between MEL SYD ADL, below 240 everywhere else) you are not in normal cruising airspace, and you are flying in what is known as Class E airspace. In this airspace, visual flying traffic does not need clearance, and does not need to tell air traffic control that it is even there. Does cruising in airspace where you are not guaranteed air traffic control seperation from other aircraft meet risk standards? What about international standards? That alone needs significant risk assessment.

Other issues do surround maintenance, crew disposition, and the delay that will be incurred. Take the 20 odd hour stop in Melbourne. It was Monday, a public holiday. Virgin started up at 7am, however Qantas were not so convinced and started back up again in the afternoon. However, Qantas always had the capacity to be able to clear the backlogs a lot faster, by deploying more capacity on the flights. Thats why the 747 turned up in Melbourne. The majority of passengers were able to get back to Sydney that afternoon - so a few extra hour delay (say an extra 6 hours), but still getting home that evening. Virgin would not have been able to do the same, as it would not have been able to throw the capacity at the problem. Choosing not to fly would have had far greater ramifications.

That alone would give comfort to an airline choosing to take the more conservative route. Also, by cancelling early, you get a far better outcome for passengers. People can avoid coming to the airport, and make alternative arrangements. Most people say it is preferable to waiting at the airport to then have it cancelled at the last minute.

Its upto the individual airline in question to do a risk assessment, and decide if they should be flying. But rest assured that Qantas is not going to cost itself this much money if it doesn't believe the appropriate action to take is to not fly. Just like Virgin won't fly if they think it is unsafe.

It is also unreasonable to compare the decision to that of the carriers such as SQ and EK. They are doing one, maybe two flights out of, or into, the affected airport. That is a very different thing to negotiating an entire airline which has a lot of flights affected, and potentially the situation of aircraft being scattered around the cities causing major congestion if things start to turn. You can liken it to Cathay Pacific when a typhoon goes towards HK. CX will stop ALL company operations, and completely shut down, however other airlines will usually continue to operate, and divert if necessary. It is as much a logicstical problem as it is a weather one.

[Jason H]

...you are not in normal cruising airspace, and you are flying in what is known as Class E airspace. In this airspace, visual flying traffic does not need clearance, and does not need to tell air traffic control that it is even there. Does cruising in airspace where you are not guaranteed air traffic control seperation from other aircraft meet risk standards? What about international standards? That alone needs significant risk assessment.

That's a damn good point Owen I didn't even think of. I guess as you get out where there is no radar coverage it is just based on position reports. I guess they're pretty much limited to FL190 to FL250 around the base of the ash

[Kirk C]

Outside radar coverage your Classes change, the base of E is F180, so any thing below that is G!!

A LL is 245

Perth's cloud was at F150, hence why all airlines stopped.

The cloud over east was LL F260.

[Philip Argy]

QF427 flew SYD-MEL this morning at FL280, to avoid turbulence according to the Captain. Could it have been for ash? I can't recall previously staying that low all the way to MEL for turbulence.

[Owen H]

FL280 is low, but not unusually so if there is a jetstream sitting around, or forecast (or reported) turbulence up in the higher levels. The beauty of a sector like MEL SYD is that you can pick and choose your level without a) too many traffic conflicts, and b) without much fuel penalty. If they're saying it is rough high or low, you do the opposite.

Can't say for sure it wasn't ash, but the Captain's reason is highly likely.

[Nigel C]

QF427 flew SYD-MEL this morning at FL280, to avoid turbulence according to the Captain. Could it have been for ash? I can't recall previously staying that low all the way to MEL for turbulence.

Would it be too hard to actually trust the Captain in what he has said? It's not like the ash in the air is a state secret! :rolleyes:

[D Chan]

No pilot reports have been received from any of the major airlines to suggest any aircraft has been affected by ash.

Not reported in the media, yes... but I thought they were issues with an Embraer which had to be inspected after flight?

[Grahame Hutchison]

Qantas - Safety Over Schedule http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41AYXhOGMFo&feature=player_profilepage


As you know, Qantas has responded to the dispersal of volcanic ash from the Mt Puyehue Cordon Caulle volcano in Chile by cancelling or rerouting a number of flights.

As a valued Frequent Flyer I want to let you know why we have made these decisions when other carriers, including Virgin and Air New Zealand, have continued to operate.

Qantas does not take the decision to cancel flights lightly. We understand that this causes significant disruptions for all our customers. We regret the inconvenience and we appreciate your patience. But safety is our first priority and we will never fly unless we are fully satisfied that it is safe to do so.

Volcanic ash cloud poses a significant threat to aircraft. It can enter an engine, turn into molten glass as a result of the high temperatures and potentially cause the engine to fail. Other risks include windscreens becoming opaque, contamination of cabin air and hydraulic systems and erosion of aircraft parts.

Our decision not to fly in the presence of volcanic ash is based on assessments by our Critical Operational Event Group, with advice from the Bureau of Meteorology and in consultation with the Volcanic Ash Advisory Centre (VAAC) in Darwin.

Unlike the meteorological authorities in Europe, Australia's VAAC does not have the ability to calculate ash density so we are unable to access definitive measurements. Our policy is not to fly into areas where the concentration of volcanic ash is unknown. Without certainty about the density of the ash, we do not consider it safe to fly.

Again, we sincerely regret the inconvenience caused by these weather conditions.

We will continue to resume services to affected ports as soon as it is operationally appropriate to do so. You can find the latest flight updates on our Flight Status page (http://edm.qantas.net.au/cts/click?q=61%3B119179%3BI9b7ADshDYXbLrg7ZvEG16DGvtfp lDnxMmJUj5Iz%2FElm9TSJ35IVfw%3D%3D).

Our Chief Pilot Captain Peter Wilson and Head of Integrated Operations Centre Alan Milne are expert members of the Qantas Critical Operational Event Group. You can watch a video of Peter and Alan discussing the rationale behind the Qantas decision to cancel or reroute some flights on Qantas' YouTube channel (http://edm.qantas.net.au/cts/click?q=61%3B119179%3BI9b7ADshDYXbLrg7ZvEG16DGvtfp lDnxsg1Vz3yBbS5m9TSJ35IVfw%3D%3D).

Alan Joyce
Qantas Chief Executive Officer

[Greg Wood]

Im curious to know which flightpath or routing does QF64 take on the return flight from Johannesburg to Sydney, given that the outbound flights ex: Sydney to Johannesburg are tech stopping via Perth for additional fuel & latest updated weather reports.

If anyone at Qantas, a pilot can answer this question it would be most appreciated.

Rgds GW

[Ryan K]

FL280 is low, but not unusually so if there is a jetstream sitting around, or forecast (or reported) turbulence up in the higher levels. The beauty of a sector like MEL SYD is that you can pick and choose your level without a) too many traffic conflicts, and b) without much fuel penalty. If they're saying it is rough high or low, you do the opposite.

Can't say for sure it wasn't ash, but the Captain's reason is highly likely.

I know people who flew OOL-HBA on JQ yesterday at just 24,000 feet due to turbulence.

[Radi K]

Emirates flew a B777 CHC-SYD at 10,000ft the other day

Would have been a fun flight!

[Adam P.]

...would have been an expensive flight for Emirates!!

[Jason H]

Im curious to know which flightpath or routing does QF64 take on the return flight from Johannesburg to Sydney

JNB-SYD is almost 3 hours quicker than SYD-JNB due to tailwinds, so I assume they can make it travelling east, and need a fuel stop travelling west.

[Jon B]

Last night i flew on DJ872? (the 17:45 departure) SYD - MEL and it also was flying around FL280. During the flight the f/o advised this was due to turbulence at higher levels. Not sure if it was due to the lower flight level or because i was seated further back in row 8A but the engine noise seemed louder than usual at this height:confused:

[Rob C]

Hi Jon,

It's not you, it is a bit louder at lower levels. I've been on a few flight where we've had to cruise at FL230 rather than the expected FL350 and the noise was substantially greater at 230.

[Steve Jones]

Looks like the as cloud is back, impacting ADL flights from first thing tomorrow morning.

[Ryan N]

Here we go again.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/ash-cloud-returns-virgin-suspends-flights-20110620-1gb9f.html

[John Arena]

Please Keep South, Please Keep South, Please Keep South, Please Keep South, Please Keep South, Please Keep South, Please Keep South, Please Keep South!!

I am leaving YSSY on THU for a jam packed holiday, and DONT want to be delayed by any means

John

[Andrew M]

So how long will this ash cloud continue to affect flights?

It has stopped erupting now yes ?

[Jason H]

Looks like it will just pass south of Sydney. Sydney-Melbourne and Brisbane-Melbourne flights are going to be interesting in the next few days though

[Nigel C]

Here's the latest showing the cloud as it approaches

http://reg.bom.gov.au/info/vaac/cordon_caulle_image.shtml

[Brenden S]

BOM says it is still going.

http://www.bom.gov.au/info/vaac/cordon_caulle.shtml

Go down the bottom for a look at how it has traveled.

[Nigel C]

It's a shame that the last graphic is now 8 days old :rolleyes:

[Jacob P]

Looks like QF are sotpping all Flights from CBR at 1200L, SYD at 1500L. QF5/31/1 are all re-seched to go at 1415L. They are also saying BNE may be effected and that this cloud is denser than previous one. more info here:

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/ash-hits-domestic-flights-again/story-e6frfq80-1226078951722

[Trevor Sinclair]

With QF32 diverted to BNE this afternoon due to #AshCloud does anyone on the board know if this was being operated by an A380? Could be another nice spotting moment for those in Brisvegas.

[Jason H]

Yes VH-OQG will be arriving in BNE this evening around 8pm

[Max C]

www.flightradar24.com has some interesting viewing at the moment.

BNE-MEL flights are tracking well off the NSW coast before turning SW for MEL.

[lloyd fox]

JQ004 and QF64 are expected into BNE plus QF domestic from DRW and ASP at this stage.

[BernieL]

AC33 is cancelled, and thus so is tomorrow's AC34... We'll see about the US majors.

[Adam.S]

JQ29 Melbourne to Bangkok departed MEL around 3pm this afternoon and headed out east to the Tasman Sea approx 500kms offshore, then tracked up North to Sydney.

Interesting to note that 25 mins later the Thai airways flight departed Melbourne and tracked on the usual direct path towards Bangkok.

[Radi K]

va2 diverting to bne
ferry to bne tomo night

[Andrew P]

so VA is hiring a ferry to get passengers to Brisbane?

[Sarah C]

Sydney, Melbourne and Canberra QF flights not operating tomorrow:

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/disruptions/global/en

[Paul McFarlane]

SE of Australia looks like a ghost town on PlanePlotter!

[Peter Agatsiotis]

Sure is Paul, with some strange routings.
SQ228 out of MEL heading nw at FL220 whereas QF9 (VHOQJ) is heading east at FL280.
BA16 is at FL180 heading towards BNE with SQ222 heading for Cunnamalla at FL280.

There is an ANZ flight and the Emirates 777 returning from CHC heading for SYD.

[Philip Argy]

This may be an ignorant question, but why is there no mention of the volcanic ash on ATIS? Is it not a reportable parameter, even under SIGWX? Or is it simply because the ash has no affect on takeoffs or landings?

[Jason H]

ATIS only gives information within 10nm of the aerodrome below 5000ftAGL

[Nigel C]

My understanding is that the ATIS typically broadcasts what's happening up to 5000 feet altitude and 10Nm horizontally (or significant weather like thunderstorms in the vicinity), and that anything outside of that area would be covered by SIGMET like this:

SIGMET WSAU21 ASRF 210621
YMMM SIGMET SY05 VALID 210700/211100 YSRF-
YMMM MELBOURNE FIR SEV TURB FCST WI KIAN - YCBB - YTFD - S2900 E15500
- S3730 E15100 - YMCO - KIAN BLW A100 STNR NC
STS:REV SIGMET SY02 210300/210700

WVAU01 ADRM 210606
YMMM SIGMET MM04 VALID 210600/211200 YPDM-
YMMM MELBOURNE FIR VA ERUPTION CORDON CAULLE LOC S4052 W07220 VA CLD
OBS AT 0600Z FL120/FL270 S5330 E11950 - S6605 E10820 - S7150 E16300 -
S6020 E16300 - S5315 E14435 - S5330 E11950 MOV E 40KT FL200/FL400
S3215 E07500 - S4855 E11200 - S4600 E13100 - S2945 E13800 - S3200
E15410 - S3645 E15255 - S3605 E14225 - S6155 E13455 - S5915 E10210 -
S4835 E07935 - S4915 E07510 - S3215 E07500 MOV E 90KT FCST 1200Z
FL120/FL270 S5305 E12110 - S6610 E10910 - S7155 E16300 - S6010 E16300
- S5315 E14550 - S5305 E12110 FL200/FL400 S3055 E07440 - S4905
E11510 - S4630 E13355 - S3000 E14040 - S3230 E15900 - S4020 E15545 -
S3825 E14640 - S6220 E13820 - S5940 E10420 - S4855 E07930 - S5120
E07505 - S3055 E07440
STS:REV SIGMET MM03 210300/210900 WSAU21 ASRF 210504
YMMM SIGMET SY04 VALID 210505/210905 YSRF-
YMMM MELBOURNE FIR SEV ICE FCST WI YCWR - YPKS - YORG - MVI - YGLB -
YCWR A040/FL185 MOV N 15KT WKN
STS:REV SIGMET SY01 210300/210700

WSAU21 AMRF 210429
YMMM SIGMET ML03 VALID 210430/210830 YMRF-
YMMM MELBOURNE FIR SEV TURB FCST WI YPID - YCOM - YMCO - LOLLY - YFLI
BLW A080 STNR NC
STS:REV SIGMET ML01 210030/210430

[Nigel C]

Well, the place is like a ghost town tonight. Only a handful of airlines are flying (Singapore, Air NZ, Fedex, Hawaiian to name a few), the aprons are reminiscent of the day Ansett collapsed with very little movement on both international and domestic, and there's a stack of Dash-8's parked neatly at the Northern Pond.

This will be a long night.

[Anthony T]

This will be a long night.

21st of June is always the longest night, don't worry the nights get shorter after tonight. :p

[Gerald D]

AirNewZealand still flying!! Who said Kiwis can't fly?? LOL

[Adam.S]

QF9 (VHOQJ) is heading east at FL280.


Departed Melbourne at 16:10, tracked up the Tasman Sea and then headed northeast and passed the coastline just south of Brisbane at 19:00.

[Arjun M]

Just having a look at Plane Plotter now and THA471 is flying opposite to SIA(who was at F220) and THA is going at F390.

Anyone know why some aircraft are still going so high?

[Matt R]

JQ35 headed east out of MEL for Bali...!?

And I thought my MEL-PER via Broken Hill and Alice Springs last week (5.5 hours) was a detour..

[Robert M]

21st of June is always the longest night, don't worry the nights get shorter after tonight. :p

Very good - I like that one....
R

[Andi O]

JQ35 headed east out of MEL for Bali...!?



That is correct. Headed about 500NM east over the Tasman, then north towrads Brisbane before heading to Denpasar. Flight time to be 9hr25min!!!!!

[Jason H]

QF9 did the same, as did pretty much all flights today that operated BNE-MEL-BNE

[Joe Frampton]

Watched a QF 744 land as I came home tonight... must have been QF32 or QF64 ???

My God, it's gonna be a cracker at Brisbane Airport tomorrow morning

No point fighting over the fuel trucks, as people won't be going anywhere in a hurry - it's gonna be an ash cloud love-in at YBBN...

Joe... Brisbane Town

[Philip Argy]

21st of June is always the longest night, don't worry the nights get shorter after tonight. :p

The Winter solstice occurs at 3.16am Sydney time Wed 22 June. So this is indeed the longest night by a whisker compared to tomorrow night, but tomorrow has a whisker less sunlight than today, and is therefore officially the shortest day of the year. :)

[Robert S]

Interesting watching Ethiad flights from SYD and MEL go out tonight on planefinder and apparently stick to 14000 ft!

[Oliver Gigacz]

New Airwork B733F (ZK-TLE) is currently en route to MEL at FL140.

Looks like TLE has ADS-B installed, unlike all the other 733s.

[Mick F]

I had no problem at all getting fuel in Brisbane today AND no holding coming into Brisbane either. The refueller even wanted to have a long conversation today, because he didn't have anything else to do.

I don't mind all this ash cloud groundings, makes my days easier, :D.

Mick

[Paul McFarlane]

I don't mind all this ash cloud groundings, makes my days easier, :D.


Even an ash cloud has a silver lining! :)

[Grahame Hutchison]

Very quiet at YSSY this morning, only a few international carriers operating.

N701DN DL0017 22/06/2011 06:40 Delta Airlines B777-232LR Los Angeles-Sydney
A6-EBR EK0418 22/06/2011 07:58 Emirates B777-31HER Dubai-BKK-Sydney-Christchurch
ZK-OJH NZ0845 22/06/2011 08:04 Air New Zealand A320-232 Wellington-Sydney
B-6507 MU0561 22/06/2011 08:24 China Eastern A330-343X Shanghai-Sydney
9V-SFG SQ7298 22/06/2011 09:22 Singapore Airlines B747-412F(SCD) Singapore-Sydney-Auckland
PK-GPC GA0714 22/06/2011 09:25 Garuda Indonesia A330-341 Denpasar-Sydney
3B-NBD MK0943 22/06/2011 09:42 Air Mauritius A340-313X Kuala Lumpur-Sydney-Melbourne
ZK-OJC NZ0703 22/06/2011 09:48 Air New Zealand A320-232 Auckland-Sydney
A6-EBR EK0418 22/06/2011 09:58 Emirates B777-31HER Dubai-BKK-Sydney-Christchurch
HL7700 OZ0601 22/06/2011 10:01 Asiana Airlines B777-28E(ER) Incheon(Seoul)-Sydney
9V-SKI SQ0231 22/06/2011 10:02 Singapore Airlines A380-841 Singapore-Sydney
B-6502 CZ0325 22/06/2011 10:18 China Southern A330-343E Guangzhou-Sydney
ZK-OJH NZ0832 22/06/2011 10:22 Air New Zealand A320-232 Sydney-Queenstown
N701DN DL0016 22/06/2011 10:23 Delta Airlines B777-232LR Sydney-Los Angeles
B-18310 CI0051 22/06/2011 10:27 China Airlines A330-302 Taipei-Sydney
DQ-FJL FJ0911 22/06/2011 10:55 Air Pacific B747-412 Nadi-Sydney

[Guy W]

QF and VA cancelled a lot of (if not all) their international flights yesterday (from late-afternoon) and today based on safety concern. However, majority of other international airlines keep flying into and out Sydney and Melbourne yesterday and today without much delay. I don't think those international renowned airlines, including CX and SQ, would not have considered about the danger of flying through ash cloud before sending their flights in. I can't understand why there is such a big difference in the way that Australian and overseas airlines made their decisions when everyone is facing the same ash cloud. Some may suggest overseas airlines choose to use lower FL or unusual flight paths to avoid the danger. But why QF or VA would not have considered so when other airlines found those alternatives safe?

[Nigel C]

I hope the pilots flying into the domestic side of Sydney have used todays downtime for a little extra study of the taxiways.

Last night we completed the realignment of Twy Bravo-4, the extension of Dom-2, the creation of Charlie-2, and the decommissioning of the old Bravo-4 between Dom-2 and Dom-3. Soon the work to extend the T2 eastern finger will begin.

Thankfully the ash cloud and subsequent cancellations of the domestics gave us an extra 2 hours of work time to get the work done. It should be a fun time for pilots and air traffic control when peak hour arrives:D

[Oliver Gigacz]

Qantas will be operating a 744 on tomorrow's QF412 service, to help clear the backlog.

[SteveW]

Hey Nigel, are the updated charts available yet? I was curious to see them, but couldn't find them on : http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/dap/AeroProcChartsTOC.htm

[Trevor Sinclair]

I just had Chris Bath on air, Seven News was shooting in the Control Tower today. Not sure how extensive the report will be but they'll have pics at six.

[Nigel C]

Hey Nigel, are the updated charts available yet? I was curious to see them, but couldn't find them on : http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/dap/AeroProcChartsTOC.htm

I don't know Steve. I presume there might be something in cyberland, but I've not gone searching for them.

Basically, Charlie-2 is the part of Bravo-4 that used to go to Dom-2 from Charlie. Dom-2 has been extended straight ahead to Twy Golf. Bravo-4 has been realigned and now joins Golf about 100m further west of where it used to be.

Make sense?

[Chris B.]

G'day Steve, you wont find them on the Aerodrome charts yet however this link (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/sup/s11-h31.pdf) should provide the answer. ;)

[JamesW]

There was also another supplement released today with the ammended aerodrome chart.

Link is here (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/sup/a11-h10.pdf)

[Nigel C]

Thanks guys :)

[Ryan N]

The Today Show this morning said Qantas would be using an A380 to clear the backlog on the SYD-MEL route today. Any further details on this if at all true?

[Matt_L]

Ryan,

Much more likely a 744. Not even sure if a380 could park at dom3

[Nigel C]

There are no domestic bays set up for the A380, so unless they had permission to transfer them via an international bay, I can't see that it would be likely.
But, stranger things have happened!

[Stephen Brown]

The Today show also said that Virgin deployed an A380 to clear the backlog.....credibility I think NOT!

[Matt_L]

Ryan,

got some additional info:

QFA412 landing in SYD from MEL at 0920 local is a 744,

QF6004 landing in SYD from MEL at 0930 local is a 744

JST7992 an A332 is about to depart SYD for MEL

Maybe these 744s will turn around back onto the MEL run? who knows.. not sure if they flew SYD MEL this morning as well..

[Matt_L]

The Today show also said that Virgin deployed an A380 to clear the backlog.....credibility I think NOT!

Kinda like the ABC report last night I heard which referred to a Jumbo jet that landed on the Hudson river:D

[David Ramsay]

Statement (http://airnewzealand.posterous.com/ceo-message-21-june-2001) from Rob Fyfe, Air New Zealand CEO


I wanted to take the opportunity to thank all those in the Flight Operations teams who worked so hard last week to maintain safe operations across the Air New Zealand network despite the challenges presented by the ash cloud from Mt Puyehue Cordon Caulle in Chile which drifted across Australia, the Tasman Sea and New Zealand. With ash re-entering Australian airspace today, it looks like they once again have a busy time ahead.

Coordinated by our Chief Pilot David Morgan and Bob Fletcher in Operations Support, the Flight Ops teams and Fleet Managers across each of our fleet types and regional airlines have been working together with the New Zealand Civil Aviation Authority, Met Service and Air Traffic Control/Airways New Zealand to undertake a continuous risk assessment, determine the position of the ash cloud and adapt our flight paths and flight levels to ensure we could continue to operate in ash-free air throughout the week. Whenever we perceived a risk that our clear air requirements would be compromised we ceased services, but fortunately this happened on relatively few occasions.

While a number of other airlines in Australasia initially ceased services, as the week progressed all airlines, with the exception of Qantas and Jetstar, were operating on a similar basis as Air New Zealand.

Air New Zealand’s commitment to adapting its services and accepting the cost of a higher fuel burn to fly longer tracks at lower altitude was very well received by customers and increasingly the media began praising Air New Zealand’s approach as the week progressed.

Behind the scenes however we were constantly battling a series of malicious rumours that emerged from the Australian market and fed to media, suggesting that Air New Zealand had six aircraft in the hangar with ash damage, an aircraft grounded in Australia with ash damage and an aircraft requiring a nose cone replacement as a result of ash damage. All these stories were a complete fiction and I was left scratching my head as to where these false rumours were coming from.

Then at the end of the week, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce sent an email to the Qantas’ eight million frequent flyer customers, trying to justify the decision by Qantas to ground many of its aircraft while all other airlines were flying and implying that airlines like Air New Zealand and Virgin Australia were operating unsafely.

What Alan omitted to mention was that it wasn’t just Air New Zealand and Virgin Australia that had managed to adapt their operations to operate safely in clear air, but all airlines apart from Qantas and Jetstar had managed to achieve the vast majority of their operations. What Alan also failed to mention was that Qantas was very happy to transfer thousands of its customers onto Air New Zealand and other airlines’ services, which seems a strange thing to do for your customers if you have concerns about the safety of the airspace.

Given Mt Puyehue Cordon Caulle continues to erupt, we will continue to see ash clouds drift across the region, like we are today, possibly for weeks and/or months to come. Air New Zealand will continue to adopt a similar approach to that we achieved last week, maintaining operations where we are confident we can do so safely without any heightened risk to our aircraft, crew and passengers.

It is also likely that we will see Qantas and Jetstar come under further customer and media pressure if they continue to adopt this strategy of grounding aircraft and it is possible that we will continue to see misinformation and false rumours emerge in the market.

Rob Fyfe

[Oliver Gigacz]

Looks like there could be some more disruptions.

http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDD65290.shtml

Or is the dotted line something else?

[Mick F]

That's all been down there for a few days now. Doesn't look to be doing too much.

Mick

[Oliver Gigacz]

Is the dotted line the ash cloud?

[Rob R]

Both the dotted and solid lines are the ash cloud, just the levels at which it starts are different in each area.

[Craig Murray]

G'day Oliver, the graphic details the following information regarding volcanic ash:


Broken Lines - Surface to 20,000ft
Unbroken Lines - 20,000ft to 40,000ft


http://www.bom.gov.au/fwo/IDD65290.png?20110625053932

[John Arena]

yesterday i got a similar sheet from a Virgin Atlantic Captain, the cloud was over tasmania at the time. id post a pic, but im on holidays (currently in KLIA)

John

[Robert S]

Statement (http://airnewzealand.posterous.com/ceo-message-21-june-2001) from Rob Fyfe, Air New Zealand CEO

I gather Qantas sent an e-mail to frequent fliers at some point with a counter-argument and now they have ads running on www.smh.com.au with this text:

Because it's always safety first.
That's why I fly Qantas.
We're hoping there will be no furhter delays due to the volcanic ash cloud. Thank you for supporting Qantas' committment to safety.
Qantas.com/thatswhy

This seems kind of pointless IMO. Supporters will agree with these sentiments, while people questioning Qantas' motives in cancelling flights when other major airlines did not will see this as evidence that this decision was indeed pure marketing all along.

[Rod Sloan]

What Alan also failed to mention was that Qantas was very happy to transfer thousands of its customers onto Air New Zealand and other airlines’ services, which seems a strange thing to do for your customers if you have concerns about the safety of the airspace.Rob Fyfe

Not a bad point to make. Wonder what Alan's response would be to that.