747 Business class - Qantas?

[Adam.S]

Hi,

I am looking at booking an upcoming flight to travel in Business class for the first time.

Having never been 'upstairs' on a 747, I ask if it differs in any way with the 'downstairs' business class section?
Is there a website which offers comparison photos?

I have been looking at a few current seat maps/pax loadings and it seems the down stairs Business class is always more 'empty' then upstairs.
Is it just the secluded 'atmosphere' which makes upstairs more appealing then downstairs in J class?



On a related note, the flight I am looking at is a multi-leg international flight, where I will be travelling on the 2nd leg of the flight.
Looking at the seat maps I see that there are some empty business class seats, but also the entire 'row 4' of First Class, is unoccupied.
In the event that 'row 4' becomes available only for the 2nd leg of the flight (and given that I will be boarding at this time) is there a chance I would be able to chose one of those seats from the online seat selector on the qantas website....or will the J class passengers who are already on that flight (flying from its original port) have preference over me?

I know frequent flyer status plays its part when it comes to upgrades, although does this stand for stage 2 of a multi leg flight?



.....if my wording makes any sense to you...:o
Cheers

[Ash W]

Adam, which cabin is better is really up to personal preference, though yes it does seem that many prefer the upper deck. My first few flights I was the same, but of late I prefer the lower deck, provided it isn't the middle seats, but no objections if I get upgraded and placed in those seats which has happened 3 times in the past 2 years.

The reason why I now prefer the lower deck is simply one of baggage space. The problem I found with the upper deck is the over head luggage lockers can be a little on the tight side for a standard cabin bag, same too with the lockers beside the window seats. Being business class passengers can and often do bring their entitlement of 2 bags so what space is available fills fast. Also whilst you don't have much through traffic walking through the upper deck, there is still a lot over isle movement owning to it being single isle, so IMO about the same as the lower deck. It can also be harder to look out the window as it is lower and due to the curve of the body at an angle. Being on the lower deck you also get off before the upper deck.

As for your second question, what flight are you on? Is it one which first class isn't being sold? In which case then yes you should by all rights be able to select those seats, though depending upon status your ability to select may not be until a day or so before the flight. Having said that though, I personally wouldn't bother with those seats, only really worth it when it comes with first class service.

[Jason H]

The only flight I can think of that would be a 2 stage flight without first class if the SYD-SIN-FRA run.

I also have been upstairs and downstairs business, and in my opinion I find upstairs better. Firstly, it's a smaller cabin and therefore a more private atmosphere. I don't find the windows too much of an issue, only really on the ground as you have to crane your neck down to look out at anything other than the tarmac. The big plus to upstairs is the compartment you have on the window. It is the same as the A380 compartment and is very handy for blankets and pillows you're not using.

[Grahame Hutchison]

My preference is the forward rows of Upper Deck Business. It is a very quiet section of the cabin, nothing forward except for the Tech Crew and a Toilet, the galley is down the back. The front rows do have slightly narrower side bins for your bags, but between the overhead bins, the window bins, and the the large coat rack at the rear , there is plenty of room. You exit the aircraft with lower deck Business and before the Economy pax, so there are no real delays. Only thing better is First (fortunate to have travelled in Cathay and Malaysian First), and the Qantas First lounge in Sydney is exceptional.

Enjoy you trip Adam.

Qantas 747 Business Class Upper Deck
http://www.16right.com/MessageBoard/D200-2006-11-06_001.jpg

Qantas 747 Business Class Upper Deck
http://www.16right.com/MessageBoard/D200-2006-11-06_002.jpg

Qantas 747 Business Class Upper Deck
http://www.16right.com/MessageBoard/D200-2007-09-09_001.jpg

Malaysian First
http://www.16right.com/MessageBoard/D300-2008-03-09_014.jpg

V Australia Business
http://www.16right.com/MessageBoard/D300-2009-03-13_147.jpg

V Australia Bar
http://www.16right.com/MessageBoard/D300-2009-03-13_148.jpg

[Mike W]

Upstairs J class 747 (pretty much any Airline) is most favourite Airliner space ever. I'd even go as far as to say even better than my (only) first class experience in the nose of a BA 744, where we both (wifey and I) felt a bit uncomfortable and out of place.

[Kelvin R]

In terms of personal preference I would take a seat in zone A, followed by the upper deck and then the main cabin. While the upper deck is nice and quite, the nose is even quieter and if you can get a window seat you look slightly forward. The only seats I avoid are those in the middle in zone A as they have no personal air vents.

Not sure if I would pay out of my own pocket to fly business on a Qantas 747 however. There are much better products on other airlines for far less money. For example BA and Finnair both have flat bed products for far less than what Qantas charge for an angle flat, while going to the USA United and Delta have a better seat as well than what QF offer. Delta even feed you more often than what Qantas does.

If by chance you are doing BNE-SYD on the 744 then you should be able to pre-allocate a seat in zone A as most PAX get off in BNE. The other week zone A was full DFW-BNE and had 4 PAX BNE-SYD including the 2 that the crew upgraded on board.

[Adam.S]

Thanks all for your replies and advice.

If by chance you are doing BNE-SYD on the 744 then you should be able to pre-allocate a seat in zone A as most PAX get off in BNE. The other week zone A was full DFW-BNE and had 4 PAX BNE-SYD including the 2 that the crew upgraded on board.
Yes, the domestic leg of QF8, BNE-SYD, was the flight I was looking at.
All seats in row 4 are currently unoccupied and that is where the idea came to me as having the option of booking a seat here instead of in Business.

What I have noticed, looking through multiple QF8 flights, is that the J class section of the lower deck is often completely empty between BNE and SYD. (I acknowledge the seating maps I was looking at are more of a 'guide' then anything official)

So the thought of sitting in a near empty 'downstairs' sounds a little appealing, as does the idea of the rare opportunity to sit 'upstairs' in a jumbo.....or the even more rare opportunity of sitting in 1st class.

Decisions, decisions........


As to why I am considering traveling in Business, its beacuse I have almost $2000 worth of flight credit which I need to use/book with before Monday.
Too difficult to put it towards overseas travel at this stage as I cannot confirm any travel dates.

cheers

[Kelvin R]

On my flight downstairs business was very full, I didn't check the upper deck and as mentioned zone A was empty. I would select 4A or 4K if available and then try for 1A or 1K when check in opens or at the airport.

Personally however if I had a $2k credit with QF I would book the 747 to PER, one way in business the other in economy. Or I would see how far around Australia I could fly in a weekend. Or I would fly to Lord Howe and back and do a few more Dash-8 sectors like out to Longreach and back. Being winter I would also look at flying to Hotham and back. Finally I might be tempted to fly to ZQN on a Saturday, stay the night and come back Sunday.

[Adam.S]

^
Thanks for the suggestions Kelvin.
I've been able to book 7 domestic flights around Australia, all during the space of one week including a trip to Perth on the 747.
I did book business class on QF8, BNE-SYD and have the option of booking seat 4A or 4K on the 747.
If I select one of these seats now, will I be 'turned away' from 1st class when I check in at the airport given I am only a bronze level Qantas frequent flyer?

[Kelvin R]

No you will not providing you check in on time. If the seat is available, then you can have it. The only time you would loose the seat would be for operational reasons. There is a slight risk that you could be displaced from 4A or 4K as it is a bassinet seat. It is also the oxygen seats as well. So there is a very small risk.

When you check in, right up to departure I would still try and get 1A or 1K however. If you would like the true F class on the 747 experience these are the seats to go for. It is just a shame that the boarding pass says "business" and not "first".

If you are flying business to PER on the 747 try and pre-allocate row 1 to 4 A or K then if the aircraft changes to a 4 class bird you will end up back in a F class seat.

[Adam.S]

^
I see, thanks very much.

[Adam.S]

I've booked business class on QF8, BNE-SYD and have the option of selecting seat 4A or 4K on the 747.

Now I know it probably comes down to personal opinion; however is there much of a difference between F and J class for a one hour flight?
I can see the advantage of sitting in 1st class on a long haul flight, however for shorter travel a window seat would be preferable and I am not sure how good seats 4A or 4K would be for looking out the window given they are the bassinet seats.
The upper deck of the 747 seems a little more appealing at this stage for me......any advice?


On a related note, I've booked a 2nd flight on QF8 (BNE-SYD) again later in the year after purchasing 2x discounted business class tickets as a birthday treat for a family member.
Again on this particular flight, all seats in row 4 of the 747 are currently available to be selected. Given these are discounted business class tickets, are we less likely to gain access to these 1st class seats if we go ahead and select them?

cheers

[Weiwern H]

Had the same things to consider on an upcoming 744 flight QF581 SYD-PER. I opted for upstairs in the end. Hope to post a trip review upon my return.

[Kelvin R]

As I have mentioned previously if the seats are available then they are yours. Even with the bassinet the view from 4A/ K is better than the upper deck as with the upper deck you look down and out the window. The upper deck also has the lockers between the seat and window. I would select row 4 on the hope that the cabin was empty and that you could change to 1A and 1K after takeoff.

[Adam.S]

OK thanks for that Kelvin.

A final question, if sitting in F class on this short 1.5 hour flight, how important or what is expected of a passengers dress code/appearance?

I will be making an effort to look 'nice', however I am not a suit and tie kind of person and for me 'nice' would be clean joggers with cargo shorts and an untucked dress/business shirt.

These being my 'best clothes' (!), would this appearance be seen as too casual and inappropriate for first class travel?

If so I might look at business class travel instead.

cheers

[Raymond Rowe]

Never flown first class on a international but from what i have heard the attire you have spoken about Adam would certainly not suit first class.I believe there is a dress code.

[Kelvin R]

For paid travel in F their is no dress code. I have never had QF ask me to change.

I don't fly in shorts or sandals because I get too cold on the plane but if that's what you want to fly in, as long as it is clean (ie not dirty) and does not have offensive material printed on it, go ahead. I also avoid shorts and open toe shoes because I worry about evacuation. I dont want slide burns on bare skin or cuts to feet from loosing flip flops or sandals on the way down.

I even change out of my suit before boarding and get into trackpants or jeans for the flight. It is just more comfortable to fly long haul and when you do a lot of it, comfort is everything.

[Ryan N]

Long gone are the days when people dress up to catch a flight. It's now as common as catching a bus.

[John Arena]

A friend of mine flew BA first, turned up Cargo Shorts, Birkenstocks, sunglasses and a T-Shirt. This was also an award booking, not once was he questioned about his dress

John

[Adam.S]

Thankyou Raymond/Kelvin/Ryan/John,
It seems my concerns are too old fashioned.

I will be making an effort to dress 'nice' and appropriate, clean shaven, clean shorts, shirt with collar and clean shoes(new joggers).

Hopefully a quiet (in terms of pax numbers) F cabin will work in my favour.
At this stage there are still 5 empty seats.

Will let you know how it goes.

[Adam.S]

With thanks to the reassurance provided in this thread, I kept my original seat selection and last week flew in the first class cabin of QF8, BNE-SYD.

Being a domestic leg and a short flight I believe 'first class' is treated as pretty much as Business class. Not that I required any fancy treatment, however was just curious to see what travel was like at the pointy end of the jumbo.

Would be interested to see if there are any differences in 'treatment/services' on the longer SYD-PER domestic flight if one had a seat in the F cabin on a 4-class jumbo.

Other then the seat itself, the only main differences I noticed between first class and economy on this flight were the offering of a beverage prior to take-off, as well as the use of actual silverware cutlery. Perhaps I was expecting too much when thinking the quality of the breakfast meal would be a little 'better' then what is served in economy, however I didn't feel that was the case on this flight.


Regardless, I enjoyed the experience however do not really think the $700 ticket and service that comes with it, was that much better then the $110 I could have paid for an economy class ticket on the same flight. Although at a discount price I would do it again.

First class on a longhaul flight does sound a little more comfortable, although I still struggle to see how anyone can justify spending that much money on a first class ticket on any kind of regular occurrence for an international flight (Emirates A380 and their onboard showers may be the exception).


Regarding dress code, I spoke with the cabin crew about my attire and as confirmed previously in this thread, its importance is somewhat a thing of the past.
I was told my appearance was "totally acceptable" and there were other adult passengers in the same cabin who were wearing jeans with sneakers and polo shirts. I was glad to see there is not a great emphasis on dress code anymore.


I recommend the flight to others, who like me could never afford a first class ticket on an international flight, but would like to try the experience on its domestic leg.
My thanks again and regards.

[Gareth U]

Adam, you seem confused. You were in Business Class. First, as a product, is not sold on SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD. The customers in the Business cabins were served an identical product to you. You were not a First Class customer.

If you happened to score an A Zone (First) seat on a 4-class 744 on SYD-PER-SYD (or any sector where First is not sold), you would experience the same service as every other Business customer.

Sometimes Business cabins are sold as Prem Y, and Prem Y as Economy. It does not affect the soft product you paid to recieve. It is called a 'cosmetic configuration'. This is where the zones/cabins are sold as another class due to aircraft substitution or availability (4 class aircraft on 3 class or 2 class route).

[SteveW]

Gareth,

You might want to reread from the beginning of the thread [paying attention to the thread title] and also be a little less patronising!

[Adam.S]

Thanks Gareth, that does makes sense.

Cheers

[Weiwern H]

Sitting in the Business Class Lounge in Syd. Can see OJD sitting at Gate 10 waiting for QF581 to Per. Have seats 12J & K upper deck. Rainy morning in Syd.

[Gareth U]

Steve, you may wish to take your own advice. Please do not assume that I was being patronising or that I had ill intention. I had read the whole thread. I wanted to make it clear - there seemed to be confusion. I apologise to Adam if he felt I was being patronising and ask that you leave moderating to the moderators. Cheers.