YSSY 80 Movements Per Hour

[Grahame Hutchison]

My son was returning to Melbourne this evening on QF463 departing at 1830.

They were a little late in leaving the Gate due to the late arrival of the inbound aircraft, however when they reached the holding point for departure, the Captain announced on the PA that ATC were enforcing the 80 movements per hour rule, and they would need to hold for 15 min until 7pm and the start of the new hour.

Is this normal, or just being enforced temporarily for some reason ?

[Andrew Coggan]

This rule has been around for a while as far as I know but I stand to be corrected. Often if you listen to ATC in the morning peak periods you will hear the Air Traffic Controllers mention it in the last 20-30 minutes of an hour telling various aircraft that they will have to wait certain amounts of time in order for the airport to maintain the 80 movements an hour cap.

[Nigel C]

It's been happening for a few months now, but I've mainly heard it in the morning peak. I did hear delays being announced by ATC on 124.7 this evening, but they were only for 6 minute delays.

[Owen H]

Unless it has changed again in the last few weeks, the big change seemed to be that it isn't being monitored in terms of movements per hour, but in terms of movements per 15 minutes (as a proportion of the hour).

Sounds good in theory, except because of the "clumping" nature of flights, I would suggest it is actually introducing delays to aircraft in the name of the 80 movement cap, even when such a cap is not in any danger of being broken. I've seen a few longish (20+ minute) delays due to this, and it is very frustrating that you can see that there are no aircraft behind you in the queue to depart (and so the next 15 minute window will be underused, meaning that there will be no danger to the cap).

As Nigel said, its been in for a few months now. And it is a PITA IMHO. The 80 movements should be planning and scheduling purposes only, not operational.

[Radi K]

Its not uncommon to have a line up of 34L deps around 9am with no arrivals, all waiting due to the 80 cap rule. I think AsA are employing someone full time to keep an eye on the 80 hour cap because it has been breeched a few times recently?

[Philip Argy]

What's the rationale for the rule - is it a noise abatement component or something else?

If everything is going OK I can't see why a flight should be held on the ground because a nominal movement cap has been exceeded. It's like a mini curfew in the middle of the day.

[Ash W]

In one word politics.

[lloyd fox]

They have a person in the tower counting the movements and when they are getting close to the 80 in a hour they slow everything up or hold aircraft.

This is true.

Anyone want to apply for that position.:D

[Kent Broadhead]

If everything is going OK I can't see why a flight should be held on the ground because a nominal movement cap has been exceeded. It's like a mini curfew in the middle of the day. My recollection is that it's a politcal noise abatement measure that was introduced when 16L/34R was opened.

[Radi K]

Philip it's actually always been in the curfew act. Just not enforced.

[Jarden S]

I think its buraquazie gone mad.

[Bob C]

Hi Jarden

Is "buraquazie" a new word Jarden as I can't find it in any dictionary ?

[NeilP]

"Buraquazie" is in my dickshunry...

[Jarden S]

I knew it was wrong after I posted it. I don't have spell check on my computer it would have helped.

[Jarden S]

Capacity constraints at Sydney
Airport must be addressed if New
South Wales is to have any chance
of reaching its ambitious tourism
targets by 2020, a report has
insisted.
The Tourism and Transport
Forum (TTF) has tabled a number
of aviation measures which it
believes are pivotal for the state to
achieve its aims.
Without them the plan, which
includes the doubling of overnight
visitor spend, will struggle.
In a 28-page submission to the
NSW Industry Action Plan, the
TTF labelled the arbitrary cap of 80
movements per hour as the “single
biggest constraint at Sydney
Airport”.
“During peak hours this limit
is consistently met, leading to an
increase in aircraft delays which
build up during the peak hour,” the
TTF said. “The cap also limits the
attractiveness of Sydney Airport
as a destination to new entrant
airlines.”
It called on the government to
review the “artificial constraints”
and be “bold enough to re-open
the debate and broker discussion
between local communities, the
Federal Government and the
airport”.
The TTF said it was aware of
“technological, aeronautical and
air traffic management solutions”
which could limit noise. They
include incentivising the new
generation of fuel efficient quieter
aircraft, such as the A380, 777-
300ER and 787-800, to operate to
Sydney.
While stopping short of
calling for the curfew at Sydney
to be lifted, the TTF said there
also needs to be “increased
dispensation parameters for the
curfew to include weather and
technical events”.
“Such a measure will reduce
the risk profile of Sydney Airport
among some carriers in terms of
being grounded or passengers
missing connection due to curfew,”
it said.
The lobby group also
recommended that slots would
free up if freight and private jets
no longer use Sydney Airport.
It argued that other major hubs
around the world have already
taken such steps.
“To this end the NSW
Government should support efforts
by Bankstown Airport to upgrade
its runway to accommodate Boeing
737-sized freighters and larger
business jets,” the TTF said in its
submission.
In addition, Newcastle and
Canberra should be used for
medium haul international
services and “championed as a
gateway to the south.

www.traveltoday.com

[Greg McDonald]

Great idea and it should happen but no government will ever have the ba11s to make any of these changes unfortunately.

[Nigel C]

Vote 1, me for PM!

[Bernie P]

Got my vote Nigel, and I'll even go and vote twice if it gets you over the line!!

[Nigel C]

I'd only be after 1 term in office, but there'd be changes everywhere!

[Shayne G]

Nigel, scrap the noisy jet ban and 80 movements an hour cap and you got yourself another vote! :D

[Darryl Schlodder]

Ban the curfew and the 80 monements an hour cap and you have my vote as well, and bring back the B727

[Nigel C]

Maybe if I get enough votes I can be driven around in the top car.... ;)

[Brad Varney]

pretty funny how this party can't make up there minds, the carbon tax and then they want aircraft to burn more fuel and produce more Carbon and fly around a little while longer? haha you got my vote Nigel. ;) .

[Greg McDonald]

And the standard head-in-the-sand reply by the idiot politicians...

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/second-airport-will-certainly-not-be-happening-in-the-sydney-basin-minister/story-e6frfku0-1226229246991

[Jarden S]

The joint Gillard/O'Farrell Study on Aviation Capacity for the Sydney Region also examined lifting the "cap" on aircraft movements at Sydney - currently set at a maximum of 80 per hour - to about 85.

That would be political dynamite for the federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese. Increasing the hourly flow of aircraft would trigger mass protests over airport noise across much of inner Sydney, including in Mr Albanese's seat of Grayndler, which has a strong Greens support base.

Nepean the preferred site for Sydney's second airport:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226228884434

[Nigel C]

I can see it now...the tree huggers will be out looking for the last colony of golden spotted Mexican staring frogs who just happen to be living right where the runway is planned to be.....

[Jarden S]

Here is a new report from the Australian Aviation, it says inaction will cost the country $60 billion by 2060:
A long awaited report on Sydney’s airport needs has warned that the city faces ‘aircraft deadlock’ within a decade and will need a second airport by 2030.

But the study’s key recommendations – raising the cap on hourly aircraft movements at the current airport and building a second airport at Badgery’s Creek in the city’s west – were immediately rejected by the federal government.

“I have already made it clear the federal government will not make any changes to the current cap or curfew,” Infrastructure Minister Anthony Albanese said today in response to the report. “Further, I have consistently stated that the government has ruled out the use of the Badgery’s Creek site as a second airport and that remains our position.”

The report, produced by a joint federal and New South Wales government committee, recommended increasing the airport’s peak-hour cap from 80 to 85 aircraft movements, though it said such an increase would only buy the airport a few more years before it reaches capacity. Anticipating opposition to the Badgery’s Creek option, the committee recommended Wilton, south of Campbelltown, as a next-best option for a second airport. It did not recommend dropping the airport’s 11 pm to 6 am aircraft curfew.

The report said that even if a recently proposed overhaul of the airport’s terminals goes forward, the airport still wouldn’t be able to meet projected medium and long term passenger increases.

“The airport has limits to its ability to handle passenger growth not only because of the legislated cap on runway movements per hour but also because of the physical constraints on runway length” and other infrastructure, the report said, adding that there was “no scope” to enlarge the airport.

At current rates, the airport is expected to reach peak-hour capacity by 2020 and full capacity by 2027, according to the report. By 2035, the airport will have virtually no options for increasing capacity even through the use of larger aircraft.

The committee said inaction would cost the economy $6 billion in lost growth by 2035 and $60 billion by 2060, about half of that hitting New South Wales.

For all that, building a second airport has long been a politically contentious issue and is likely to become even more difficult as the city continues to expand. The government purchased the Badgerys Creek site more the two decades ago for use as an airport, but the city’s growth to the west has since surrounded the site with residential areas, and building an airport there is now opposed by both the federal and state governments.

The report said Badgerys Creek remains the best option because of its road and rail links and proximity to growing markets but said Wilton, in the city’s southwest, would be the next best choice, though it acknowledged that this too could face opposition.

“The spread of urban development in the Sydney basin means it is already very difficult to find a suitable site” for a second airport, the study said. “The opportunity to secure a suitable site is likely to disappear altogether if action is not put in train now.”

The study recommended improving public transport links to the existing airport, immediately initiating a new Master Plan process for Sydney Airport, and opening RAAF Base Richmond to limited commercial traffic. It also said Bankstown Airport, currently reserved for general aviation, could be opened to turboprop commercial flights, though Albanese said he opposed that change.

Albanese said he would push to “establish a joint body with NSW to look at implementing a long term strategy” and called for cooperation.

“This is a matter of importance for Australia and it needs a bipartisan approach,” he said.
http://australianaviation.com.au/2012/03/urgent-need-for-second-sydney-airport-report-says/

[Greg McDonald]

Albanese is such an utter moron....

[Shayne G]

..and a massive headache for the Aviation Industry in Australia! :D

[George G]

Why don't they increase movements around the 12pm-2pm time slot?

I don't know if it's just me, but it's awfully quiet around these times.

[Owen H]

Because passengers travel when they want to travel!

There is no point moving all of the evening SYD - MEL flights to mid afternoon...

Foreign curfew and arrival time issues also dictate a lot of the international departures needing to be later in the afternoon.

[Kent Broadhead]

Foreign curfew and arrival time issues You mean airports in other countires have restrictive curfews? Who'd have thunk it? :)

That said, I have little problem with lifting the 80 per hour cap (or making it more flexible), and can also see some value in exemptions following severe weather events, particularly using 16L/R for takeoffs.