Qantas increases fares due to fuel & carbon tax

[Andrew Johnson]

extra $120 to USA from February 15 & so on ...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-fares-to-rise-again-as-fuel-surcharges-carbon-taxes-take-effect/story-e6frg95x-1226261011768

+ flow on effects

[Greg McDonald]

Or maybe its trying to recover from the greedy blackmailing unions.....and thats all I'll say on the matter. :rolleyes:

[D Chan]

passing the costs from the carbon tax here and the EU to passengers, just like any fuel surcharges

[Bernie P]

SO, QF are raising the ticket price effective 15 February, citing Carbon Tax, YET, the Carbon Tax starts July 1 2012... Is it just me, or can anyone else see something wrong here??

Crikey (http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/07/11/carbon-tax-let-the-games-begin/)
Yesterday Gillard announced the details of the much-debated carbon price, aka the Clean Energy Future policy. And it’s not just about a carbon price (although that’s the big news and will start from July 1 next year): an independent finance board will invest $10 billion over five years into renewable and low emission energy.

HIA (http://hia.com.au/upload/hia/documents/workplace%20services/carbon_tax_frequently_asked_questions_for_housing. pdf) (pdf)
When was it announced?
Prime Minister Gillard first announced the Government‟s intentions to implement a carbon tax in February this year. A detailed package outlining the carbon tax arrangements was subsequently released by the Prime Minister on 10 July 2011, confirming the carbon tax would be implemented from 1 July 2012.

The Age (http://www.theage.com.au/business/carbon-tax-countdown-to-july-2012-start-date-20110224-1b73f.html)

The hybrid carbon scheme announced by Ms Gillard and Greens leader Bob Brown would force industry to buy a permit for each tonne of carbon dioxide emitted from July 1 next year.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/carbon-tax-countdown-to-july-2012-start-date-20110224-1b73f.html#ixzz1lGBomt31

[Jason PM]

I too am intrigued that QF Carbon Tax cost is already being passed on. Will be interesting if the authority reviewing pricing issues related to the CT will have an early look.

Also, I get frustrated in the separate pricing that airlines do, there shouldn't be a separate fee on these items. What next will QF have a tax on the fare for Payroll Tax and another entry for Corporate Tax etc..

[Ryan Hothersall]

If Qantas are raising fares now and citing the carbon tax as the reason (which comes in on July 1), isn't that profiteering?

[Ash W]

If you guys actually bothered to read the article rather than foaming at the mouth you would see that it is the fuel increase that is being passed on now. When it comes to carbon taxes (note the s denoting a plural) you would have read that the European ETS (read carbon tax) is being passed on now and the cost of the Australian carbon tax will be passed on when when it is introduced in July. So no profiteering or ripping people off.

But guess the newspaper got what it wanted, a headline to get people into a flury.

[Mike W]

Or maybe its trying to recover from the greedy blackmailing unions.....and thats all I'll say on the matter. :rolleyes:

Of course these Greedy Unions are headed by Gillard masquerading as Prime Minister (no, I'm not joking or using sarcasm)

[Todd Hendry]

If you guys actually bothered to read the article rather than foaming at the mouth you would see that it is the fuel increase that is being passed on now. When it comes to carbon taxes (note the s denoting a plural) you would have read that the European ETS (read carbon tax) is being passed on now and the cost of the Australian carbon tax will be passed on when when it is introduced in July. So no profiteering or ripping people off.

But guess the newspaper got what it wanted, a headline to get people into a flury.

Ash, I actually agree with you. Well said.

Todd

[Todd Hendry]

Or maybe its trying to recover from the greedy blackmailing unions.....and thats all I'll say on the matter. :rolleyes:

Greg, I have been very silent on this matter for a long time.
I am sick of people having a go at unions when they are not involved.
I'd love to know where this backstabbing happens. To quote a once fish and chip shop owner "please explain?".

I know this is a public forum and people have a right to free speech. Go right ahead. But please be informed.

I can tell you now that one union offered the company between 15 and 20% and was knocked back.

Greedy? I don't think so.

So please when you want to go of half-cocked please think again.

Todd.

[Jim M]

Here Here.... Well said Todd

Jim M

[Greg McDonald]

Greg, I have been very silent on this matter for a long time.
I am sick of people having a go at unions when they are not involved.
I'd love to know where this backstabbing happens. To quote a once fish and chip shop owner "please explain?".

I know this is a public forum and people have a right to free speech. Go right ahead. But please be informed.

I can tell you now that one union offered the company between 15 and 20% and was knocked back.

Greedy? I don't think so.

So please when you want to go of half-cocked please think again.

Todd.

Not half-cocked at all Todd. Most airline unionists have simply dropped their bottom lip now because management was smart enough to bring the dispute to a head and they've been forced to accept a compromise. I wonder where we'd be now if management had not forced their hand...strikes or go-slows through school holidays and public holidays, overtime bans etc etc etc. And 15 - 20%...you must be kidding! I work in IT and have a number of relatives that work in the airline industry and NONE of us have EVER been offered more than 3% at best as a pay rise for many years now, if anything was offered at all! To ask for the ridiculous percentages that the union were asking and threaten (and carry out) militant industrial action when you don't get your way IS blackmail or very close to it! Of course management aren't squeaky clean in this either but as a general rule airline unions demand far more than they should in this economic climate then scream blue murder when jobs are off-shored as a result.

[Lee G]

Ash, Well done! You are one of the very few who read the article in it's entirety and understand what is actually being increased and when for the correct reasons. ;)

[Andrew Johnson]

it's just another nail in the Qantas (international) coffin !!!

$120 might not sound much, but for a family of 6, that's $720, which may be enough to push them over the edge & not go/fly at all, which is bad for everyone.

[Ash W]

Andrew considering what the cost increases are for you will find everyone else will be raising their price too.

[Andrew Johnson]

Yes, so people may not fly at all, or go to a closer location for a shorter period.

In the end, everyone loses as with all the doom & gloom arpound at present, people don't need much of an excuse to not fly.

[Dave C]

Greg.

You are miss interpreting Todd's post. The pilots union offered the company a reduction in costs of 15-20%. Not asking for pay rises of that amount. I don't want to get into a slanging match about "aviation unions" with you, but the pilots entire industrial action consisted of wearing red ties and making PA's. They did not participate in the events you described.

Just wanted to clear up your mistake.

Cheers.

[Greg McDonald]

Thanks Dave. I did misunderstand what Todd was saying....sorry Todd. I'm fully aware that the pilot's part of the dispute was handled by them with dignity and my little dummy spit was not aimed at them at all, rather a few other groups that shall remain obvious!!

[Todd Hendry]

No worries Greg.
Todd

[Andrew Johnson]

I too am intrigued that QF Carbon Tax cost is already being passed on. Will be interesting if the authority reviewing pricing issues related to the CT will have an early look.

Also, I get frustrated in the separate pricing that airlines do, there shouldn't be a separate fee on these items. What next will QF have a tax on the fare for Payroll Tax and another entry for Corporate Tax etc..

Qantas is big enough, especially if they got together with DJ & others & said to Fed govt collect your own taxes, like you used to do at airports.

That way they could advertise lower fares & people would realise that they are paying ridiculous taxes for departing the country, so called security etc.

[Ash W]

How do you propose for this to work? How is the Federal Government going to collect a carbon tax from individuals? Moreso when you consider the carbon tax covers more than just aviation?

In relation to the other taxes you mention, do remember that things like the carbon tax can be directly attributed to an individual journey, but other taxes such as corporate and payroll (do they still have this?) cannot be attributed to an individual journey, so a bit hard to collect separately. Though do agree with the sentiment that it is silly to have surcharges etc, why not just have a fare that covers all the costs?

[Andrew Johnson]

Andrew- Please do not use the quote button to quote the entire post directly above yours. -mod.

No, no, no.

Years ago, you used to pay your departure tax at international airport.

Some rocket scientist in tax department, decided cheaper for airlines to collect, but they forgto that would lead to less people travelling, as many travellers are extremely price sensitive.

Now we have a raft of taxes/charges (not inc fuel surcharges) which no one wants to collect as it's perceived to be part of airfare.

Airlines don't want to collect, agents don't want to collect.

If QF & co said shove it, then what choice does the fed govt have really ?

Go back to collecting it themselves at airports + all the other charges.

[Ash W]

Depature tax I agree could be collected individually but it is pretty stupid and backwards to do so. How many countries still do it seperatly? As for it turning off passengers where is your evidence.

However you have missed the point completly with the carbon tax. It is not a tax that can be collected from an individual. Next you will be suggesting that an individual should pay GST directly to the government rather than being 'collected' by the airline.

[Ian Garton]

Depature tax I agree could be collected individually but it is pretty stupid and backwards to do so. How many countries still do it seperatly?

New Zealand still does for starters.

[Ash W]

Enough said I guess. Backwards....

[Andrew Johnson]

As for it turning off passengers where is your evidence.

Next you will be suggesting that an individual should pay GST directly to the government rather than being 'collected' by the airline.there is no GST on interntional fares !!!

Tiger, who are now selling tickets to lots of suits (probably those who pay their own fares) say that a dollar or 2 can make a huge difference to sales.

It's rough out there.

We've lost Spanair & Malev. Just waiting for a big legacy to fall over.

With USA & European economies in seemingly freefall, who knows what will happen.

If airlines don't include $47 departure tax or whatever it's now called + all the other taxes, that's a huge amount.

CEO of Allegiant in USA said recently, something to the effect, that he can sell a fare from A to 8 for $80 & pick up $40 on ancillary sales, BUT, the same passenger won't pay $120 if all ancillary costs included.

[Ash W]

Since when was the discussion about international only? So my question about GST still stands.

Why should an airline or any business for that matter be able to deceive their passengers into thinking the total cost of their trip is less than it really is? And deception is exactly what it, and your example about Allegiant (whoever they are) is. Deceiving a customer into thinking they are paying less so they end up paying more.

ALL costs to get a passenger from A to B should be included in the fare the passenger pays. The only thing that really is up for debate is weather those costs should be rolled into one bottom line price, or weather individual surcharges etc should be separately listed.

[Andrew P]

Ash

do airlines now have weather surchages!!!

[Andrew Johnson]

Since when was the discussion about international only? So my question about GST still stands.

Why should an airline or any business for that matter be able to deceive their passengers into thinking the total cost of their trip is less than it really is? And deception is exactly what it, and your example about Allegiant (whoever they are) is. Deceiving a customer into thinking they are paying less so they end up paying more.

ALL costs to get a passenger from A to B should be included in the fare the passenger pays. The only thing that really is up for debate is weather those costs should be rolled into one bottom line price, or weather individual surcharges etc should be separately listed.

It's not deception, it's all about very dodgy govt & airport charges.

Allegiant have something like 50+ maddogs & now have something like 6 x 752's. They will start Hawaii service, hopefully by the middle of this year.

Check them out. They seem to be the future in USA.

Airports like ZQN charge a user fee of something like NZD$20 or $25/adult, which has nothing to do with the airfare, but you can't fly out of ZQN to OZ without paying it 1st.

[Ash W]

There was an interesting story on the ABC lunchtime news today on the topic of airline prices and the 'deceptive' manner in which the true costs of flights are being hidden to deceive customers into thinking their flight is cheaper than what it really is. The article was commenting more on things like paying for baggage etc, but the whole jist of the story was airlines should have a bottom line price that can be compared to other airlines, being the total cost of getting the passenger from A to B.

By even suggesting that all associated taxes, fee's etc should be hidden from the passenger and then sprung on them latter is total lunacy IMO. Even the suggestion that by removing taxes and charges, which the passenger must pay from the price so that the price looks cheaper, says it all really. How that is not deception is well beyond me.

I recall once being caught out by an exit tax in East Timor. The charge was $20 USD, which I didn't know about it, the previous times I had been there no tax was payable, so I had no USD. All I had in cash was $50AUD, which the Air North Agent happily accepted in exchange for a fresh $20USD as there was no currency exchange.