RAAF BBJ's For PM

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

I trust you all had a Happy and Safe Easter!!

Given that the RAAF has several KC-30A MRRT (A332's) for Air to Air Refuelling and Troop Transport, why doesn't the Government Retire the 737 BBJ and upgrade to the Airbus A332 Equivalent. This would mean no extra training involved as it is the same aircraft type. Slap and extra Fuel tank in and convert it to a Business Jet.

We must the the only nation that when the PM Fly's overseas, arrives in a tiny jet, compared to the B777's / B747's that are being used by most Head of States.

The other choice involves new aircraft type and training for Certification. My other choice is B772LR BBJ. What sort of range would this have as a BBJ?

By upgrading, the travelling Media can travel on the same aircraft, instead of using commerical airlines, which can be delayed / cancelled or even crash, in the case of the Indonesia B737 crash a few years ago.

I welcome your thoughts??

Stuart

[Nigel C]

Cost.

Oh, and carbon pollution. Can't have the PM telling us to cut down on our emissions if she upgrades to a bigger polluter...;)

[Scott Loveday]

Many Heads of States (with the US and some of the oil rich nations generally excepted) now often travel on chartered airline jets, or even on RPT services.

When I think back to CHOGM, the Sri Lankan contingent arrived on a Sri Lankan 343, the Indian on an Air India 744, the British PM on a Virgin Atlantic A340, the New Zealand PM came on an Air New Zealand jet. The Queen gets around in a British Airways 777.

Back when John Howard was PM, he even used to travel to and from Europe on QF RPT services (in first of course).

[Ray P.]

I believe that the BBJ leases are due to expire in the next year or so. There was talk about using larger aircraft to accommodate the media contingent following the Indonesian crash. BTW, it seems that you have forgotten that the RAAF operates a fleet of B737 Wedgetails with obvious similarities to the BBJ.

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi Ray,

I know the RAAF has Wedgetails, but it can't be used or configured for a BBJ, which I was refering to. The KC-30A's as I understand, can be configured to suit either Troop transport (ie Seats Fitted) or Fuel Tanks installed (if I understand correctly)

How can a modern A332, be more Carbon Polluting than an aging B737 BBJ???

Please tell me.

Stuart

[Nigel C]

I woudn't have thought the engine technology on A330's would have improved that dramatically since the RAAF got their BBJ's...

[Ray P.]

Oh, sorry Stuart I misunderstood and may still be a little confused. Are you talking about the purchase of an A332 'equivalent' (BBJ equivalent) or additional KC-30As which can be VIP configured?

[Andrew P]

Back when John Howard was PM, he even used to travel to and from Europe on QF RPT services (in first of course).

only because the the VIP aircraft were 707 which did not reach noise standards, so the PM had to fly commercial

as soon as the BBJ arrived in 2002, no more commercial for the PM

[JoshuaD]

As much as we all dislike whatever Poli is the leader. I think they are entitled to a private Jet, regadless of our feelings towards them. Many corporate leaders have private jets, and its only fair, the leader of our country has this privelige. Its when the back benchers, and insignificant snails get to book the VIP jet out to go home for the weekend, that really gets to me. That needs to be stopped.
Re the A330 Vs BBJ, I think the A330 is overkill as a VIP Jet.

[Kent Broadhead]

Given that Austrlaia is at the "**** end of the world", it is essential in this day and age that our leaders have effective aircraft to link to the rest of the world, or even to just get around our own nation. The current BBJ/Challenger fleet would seem to suit the domestic role quite well, and the BBJ's many overseas missions.

In which case, a reconfigurable KC-30A would seem to make a lot of sense, in the same way that the Canadians use their Polarises (A310s). Or we could do what Germany has done and pick up a couple fo cheap A340s (yes, I know, shades of the 707s, but tstill cheap!!) :)

[A McLaughlin]

The KC-30A's as I understand, can be configured to suit either Troop transport (ie Seats Fitted) or Fuel Tanks installed (if I understand correctly)

The KC-30As always carry refuelling tanks AND seats... The seating config is the same 2-class layout as QF A332s.

There was talk about a VIP A332 a few years ago and again recently when Airbus offered up a sixth KC-30A at a discount rate, but there is little appetite for it within the RAAF or government due to cost and ongoing certification issue with the KC-30As.

The BBJs are leased, not owned by the RAAF, and are maintained by QDS. The only fingerprints the RAAF has on them is the crewing and very minor line maintenance. It is likely the leases for these - which expire in 2014 - will be rolled over for a few years, as they are economical, reliable, and suprisingly capable.

[A McLaughlin]

I woudn't have thought the engine technology on A330's would have improved that dramatically since the RAAF got their BBJ's...

Correct - the CF6s on the A332s and the CFM56s on the BBJs are similar generation engines. The CFMs - being smaller - would obviously pump out less crap...but I doubt that is a major consideration when choosing a VIP jet! Size, range and mission configuration would all rate higher.

[Jethro H]

We must the the only nation that when the PM Fly's overseas, arrives in a tiny jet, compared to the B777's / B747's that are being used by most Head of States.

We are one countries that operate VIP fleet in the first place internationally.

Our Head Of State flies "commercial" when she comes to Australia on a chartered BA.

Should the RAAF be performing a VIP function anyway? Sub contract it?

The Federal government sub-contacted a key role of coastal protection many years ago. I would prefer to have Coastwatch be performe by Defence aircraft and contract commercial carriers on demand for VIPs

[Laurent Sanhard]

bring back the 707 and let John Travolta fly her around , it would be a great way for our PM to promote the carbon tax O/S:rolleyes: