My before and after ADB-S comparisons

[Brad B]

Hi All, well I got my radarbox back from Airnav, I did a screen shot comparison from stock antenna to external antenna.

This really highlights the difference between the 2.

I will also post a screen shot with the LMR400 coax and another 20 feet of height as soon as i get my cable. At the moment the antenna is using cell foil cable, antenna is 4 feet from rooftop, elevation of 60mASL but with clear horizon view about 320 degrees.

Now I have the box back ill be feeding the radar box network :)

[Peter Agatsiotis]

yes, big difference with external; mine has suffered some static issues so only picks up close stuff now.

Still helped me overseas when at airport hotels!

[Brad B]

exact same thing that happened to mine and a mates box, im told to put a DC block in line...anyone else doing this?? How have you protected your radar box??? Seems weird that the box itself doesn't have some form of protection.

[Brad B]

ok so spread is looking pretty good, I still think i need a better antenna! the radar rama is just making 200nm.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg572/auairmonitoring/RadarBox%20Screen%20Shots/2ndaugust.gif

[Kurt A]

Hi Brad,

Thanks for the plot. Looks good.

What's your visual range of sight like in the West? Many obstructions? There's other factors that could limit it's range too... length of cable run (shorter the better), the use of connectors (less the better).... and would you believe, as reported in the UK, TREES.

I'd suggest 200nm range is pretty good from in the suburbs. To be honest, unless you're extremely high and have got an absolute clear outlook over the ocean, you'll be hard pressed to get in the 250nm range or even further like Grahame.

Suggest you attend to the above and report back. Else, couple your LMR400 with the DPD Antenna Grahame imported. I know Steve in Sydenham is potentially interested in a similar antenna, so maybe you can do a deal together?

If you see no difference with an alternate antenna, you might have some obstruction out on the horizon that you just can't see. Remember, the further the aircraft away, the lower it is on the horizon.

Keep us posted and if you need any other help don't hesitate to ask.

[Mick F]

Not sure if it's been mentioned elsewhere, but as ADS-B is line of sight (basically the same as a VHF signal), the theoretical range can be worked out by the following:

Theoretical Range = √1.5 x Aircraft Height Above the Antenna

Eg. √1.5 x 30,000ft = 212Nm's

Then as has been pointed out above, that's all dependant on site error's of your aerial as well. Plus the cableing, etc. It doesn't take much for a weak signal that far out, to then be shielded by a tree, or a distant hill.

Mick

[Kurt A]

Thanks for the input Floody!

Here's a brilliant document from a well respected SBS enthusiast who talks about theoretical range and formulas etc. Of course some of us experience better range than the theory, but it depends on the circumstances. Check it out, it's a good read, even for the non technical.

http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/SBS/Article/Barebones41_Reception.htm

[Grahame Hutchison]

Thanks for the ADS-B range article Kurt, very interesting.

I am running Planeplotter alongside AirNavSystems RadarBox and only plot my ADS-B and ACARS reception. This is today's plot, and the two tracks way out to the east are at 439nm and 557nm respectively. I have had a quick look through the ACARS logs looking for position reports at E162deg, but could not find any. Next up will be a check of the RadarBox logs.

The 557nm plot may be an aircraft flying between Asia and NZ as the track angle is very north/south.

http://www.16right.com/MessageBoard/Planeplotter 20120803.jpg

[Brad B]

thanks for the info, yeah I think id like to try another antenna.

this is the view from my roof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mux1IvMyANc&feature=youtu.be

[Henning S]

Brad, your antenna position is really awesome! Couldn't be much better. Maybe you can cut down some of the trees. ;-) I am really jealous!

[Kurt A]

How's your setup going Henning?

[Grahame Hutchison]

Looks like the transmissions from E160 on 3/8/2012 were from Korean Air flight KAL121 operated by HL7752 RKSI-YSSY.

Kurt, You can add HL7752 to the Black List, also CC-CQE

[Henning S]

How's your setup going Henning?

It's quite good. But as expected my reception varies for different directions. I am running SBSplotter since today and will post a screenshot the with the SBSplotter outlines the next days.
I've got the best reception in the north-east. North-west is ok. But west and south there is a hill in the way and in the east there are two houses.

In the north-east direction I have received a couple of flights today north of Port MacQuarie. And the plane that was the most far away was a Pacific Blue Airlines 737-800. I received it 237.7NM away in north-east direction.

I have also downloaded ShipPlotter now as the SBS-3 can also receive AIS signals. I've got an ocean view from my apartment and now I always know which ships I can see out there. It's really cool. And for AIS I don't even have a special antenna.

For ADS-B I am using the GP1090 antenna with a 5m Aircell 5 cable. Unfortunately I cannot mount my antenna outside. It's a rental apartment. So I've got the antenna right behind the window. For these circumstances I am really satisfied with my reception.

I am currently running BaseStation, PlanePlotter as MLat-Ground Station, Active Display Lite for the Aircraft Details, Flight Display to get route data and pictures and SBSplotter for to review my reception. I have also downloaded a PP Addon called PP2GM to show the flights on a Google Maps map. But I didn't have time to test that, yet.
I've got operator logos installed and downloaded detailed outlines for the SYD area. Also a waypoint file with all the airports around SYD.

After setting all this up, I like the SBS-3 much more than my RadarBox. I can do a lot more with it. But I really hope that Kinetic will update the BaseStation software one day. It looks very old fashioned.
My favourite solution would be an out-of-the box solution like the RadarBox software with all the data that PlanePlotter provides and the configurability of BaseStation plus undockable windows so that I can show several views at the same time on different screens.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I am also feeding flightradar24.

And if any of you guys thinks that I might need another great add-on that I've missed so far, just let me know :-)

[Noel White]

Thanks Henning for sharing your details, great report. Sounds like you have things set up nicely.

[Henning S]

Yep, it's working fine! And I've got the SBS-3 connected to one of the LAN ports of my WLAN router. If I want I can access it now even from the office. And when I am sick the next time and need to stay in my bed I can take my laptop with me and still have a look at what's going on in the sky :-)

[Kurt A]

Thanks Grahame, I will get around to updating it.

Henning - Super effort on the setup. Sounds like you're right on top of things. Bummer on the apartment aspect though because you'd do so much better in open space. Also, mobile feed on the laptop is way cool eh, especially during the Olympics, ha!
I'd love to steal your Wimo GP1090 for a day and test it sometime. Don't know of anyone else in Sydney using one of those. They've also got a super price ex VAT on the SBS3 box, so good work on sourcing that too.

Noel - Did you get Henning set up with SQLite to enable manual updates to the FD7 database?

[Brad B]

hmm..not that ive seen Kurt, if you do look to get one let me know, might do a combo shipping deal and save the coin on shipping if we get a couple.

Well I scored 63 flights tracked at 1 time this morning...but avg of 120 nm so i need more range ;)

[Brad B]

Some shots from this morning, coverage is decent, getting down to 250'

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg572/auairmonitoring/RadarBox%20Screen%20Shots/8thaugust210nm.gif

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg572/auairmonitoring/RadarBox%20Screen%20Shots/8thAugustplanes.gif

[Henning S]

I'd love to steal your Wimo GP1090 for a day and test it sometime. Don't know of anyone else in Sydney using one of those. They've also got a super price ex VAT on the SBS3 box, so good work on sourcing that too.

Noel - Did you get Henning set up with SQLite to enable manual updates to the FD7 database?

Kurt, whereabouts do you live? I don't mind lending you my antenna for a day. I haven't mounted it so I simply need to disconnect the cable.

No, I haven't setup SQLite. But that wouldn't be a problem at all. My question is: What do I need it for? What kind of manual updates to the FD7 database do I need to do?

[Brad B]

Id be interested to see Kurts results with antenna change...Id feel more comfortable spending the money if an antenna worked better and I saw the results by others.

At the moment im using the radar Rama antenna that has 5dbi gain...its a short thing

[Henning S]

Here is the screenshot with my SBSplotter outlines.
If you click on the preview it will be opened in a bigger size and if you click on that picture again it will be displayed full size.

http://s14.postimage.org/d0rjzbx71/2012_08_05_13h58_43.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/d0rjzbx71/)

[Kurt A]

I don't mind lending you my antenna for a day. I haven't mounted it so I simply need to disconnect the cable.

I'm closer to the airport than you with good height, albeit without the ocean view. Maybe it's something we can test out during the planned Open ADS-B Workshop?!
Speaking of which, would you and Brad be interested in coming? We've gathered interest from most of the other Sydney PlanePlotter sharers, so the group get-together is looking more and more positive.

See here for more details: http://yssyforum.net/board/showthread.php?t=8474


No, I haven't setup SQLite. But that wouldn't be a problem at all. My question is: What do I need it for? What kind of manual updates to the FD7 database do I need to do?

If you're using FlightDisplay to control how the Flight Routes display in Basestation for a particular aircraft; then using SQLite as a basic database editor, you can quickly and easily edit any of those routes that may be displaying in Basestation as incorrect. Flight Display uses the FD7 database offline to store the routes it collects from it's various internet sources.

Often where Flight Display gathers its route info from (internet) can be slow to update real world route changes across a network or operator, which can then lead to outdated routes showing in Basestation for various flights. This way you can manually update the FD7 route database to keep your Basestation up to date if you see any discrepencies.

Noel might be able to add more.


hmm..not that ive seen Kurt, if you do look to get one let me know, might do a combo shipping deal and save the coin on shipping if we get a couple.

Hi Brad, I haven't yet made the move to the SBS3 as my current location and requirements don't warrant an upgrade. But if I do, I'll make contact with you so we can reach out to Wimo direct.
I have often navigated to the purchase page, but then get this hesitant mouse stutter when I hover over the 'Purchase Now' button, lol.

[Henning S]

Speaking of which, would you and Brad be interested in coming? We've gathered interest from most of the other Sydney PlanePlotter sharers, so the group get-together is looking more and more positive.


Depends on when and where it will be scheduled.

[Steve Bottom]

Just my 2 bobs worth, I live in Cairns , so am surrounded by mountains, my range is limited by this , so no amount of changes to my antenna set up will give any increase in range, just a sad fact of the ADSB transmission limitations,

When looking for an external ADSB antenna i visited my local communications experts at Austek , and had a good chat with their technician he said that as my set up was a "none transmitting" set up the actual ADSB freq of 1090mhz did not have to be met, and i ended up with a home GSM mobile phone antenna which tops put around 900mhz. It came with around 20 meters of low loss cable attached and is fully weather proof, its been up on its pole for years now and works just fine , I not saying its the be all and end all in antenna setups, but its a cheaper alternative as it " works out of the box"

[Brad B]

I also used to use a base GSM antenna, it got about 1/3 the signal distance my dedicated 1090mhz antenna got...so I dont believe the theory of your comms expert (id question the expert bit)

[Mike Scott]

Bottom line guys is that just because you are not transmitting does NOT mean that you can compromise the quality of your antenna system. That antenna is your gateway to the ADSB signals that are in the airwaves around you..compromise that and you compromise both the amount of signals that you hear as well as the quality of those signals compared to the surrounding noise/other signals etc.

The front end (business end) of many of these ADSB receivers is very broad (meaning not very selective signal wise) so if you use less than the optimum antenna system connected to it then you are simply not going to see the results that you are looking for. Mobile phone antennas are not the way to go !!!!

Go buy the right tools (antenna, coax, etc) for the job then once you have the correct basics in place then you can work on enhancing the system by adding different types of antennas/preamps/front end filtering etc...all designed to add capability to that all important antenna system. I have been a ham radio operator for many years..specializing in frequencies from VHF and up to over 2 Ghz which is higher than the ADSB freqs that are in use currently.

Just because you dont live in an optimum location (up high on a hill) such as Cairns doesnt mean you cant get a lot of extra performance out of the system you have and still get much better better results than you probably first thought possible :)