more QF delays...

[Montague S]

delays are becoming more significant in recent days..just a small snapshot of what's happened around Australia (PER-SYD & MEL) since Friday just gone. I haven't included the knock-on effect to the return flights and the onward flights such as QF31, 1 & 5.

QF73 San Francisco 13:55 18:06 Departed
QF5 Singapore 15:55 21:29 Departed
QF31 Singapore 16:55 21:59 Departed
QF1 Bangkok 17:00 21:15 Departed
QF101 Shanghai 09:35 13:29 Departed
QF77 Singapore 12:00 (Fri) 06:26 (Sat) Departed
QF71 Singapore 15:30 18:36 Departed
QF63 Johannesburg 09:50 11:25 Departed
QF73 San Francisco 13:55 15:45 Departed
QF31 Singapore 16:55 20:03 Departed
QF1 Bangkok 17:00 21:12 Departed
QF63 Johannesburg 10:00 14:30 Estimated
QF1 Bangkok 17:00 21:30 Estimated

[Nils Kenny]

It looks like it Departed Sydney at 09.00 on 16 Jun 2008. When will the Great Mr Geoff DIXON sit down with the Engineers and eat Pie......The Actions they are doing is going to Kill of the Airline and Cost them Millions & Millions of Dollars...........It's ok I guess because it's not coming out of this Pocket and it's the Shareholders that lose out in the end........STAND UP SHAREHOLDERS................
Question which BIG WIG from QANTAS has flown SUITES on Singapore Airlines and has done a few flights on them.............

[Kelvin R]

Checking the annual report Dixon is a shareholder, along with the unions. If by bigwig you mean Dixon, then yes he has also been seen flying EK First and I have seen him flying QF First as well. So what? :)

While I am not taking sides, I think the engineers have far more to loose than Dixon, QF, or QF shareholders if agreement can't be reached. The reality of the situation is the QF management team are in a position to ride this out and the risk to the engineers of no agreement would be that QF outsource the entire business, using a contract engineering operation for work that needs to be carried out within Australia and offshoring everything else.

If I was an engineer I would be looking at how I could deliver increased productivity to drive shareholder value for long term wealth creation in return for extra compensation (whether that be cash, super or stock) rather than this public flogging of how bad Dixon is. Considering that the majority of QF travellers are business people the current approach probably isn't having the impact hoped for.

[Brenden S]

I would like to see how they can outsource the whole engineering side with their paperwork and what they require for a LAME. I do know that the engineers sat down with mr dixon and he came back and basically said no to what they wanted which was pretty reasonable. There is on average 1900 hold items ( defects) across the fleet!

[Philip Argy]

QF 872 CBR -> SYD this morning saw VH-VYL leave the chocks at 0730, experience a very flat spot on the left outboard tyre during taxi, but continue to uneventful wheels up at 0738 and then spent some 18 minutes of flying time circling aimlessly before descent due to 'traffic' in Sydney. With a flying time of only 25 minutes, why bother taking off if the landing slot isn't clear? Surely the cost of fuel etc makes it crazy to circle for so long, and the passengers would have prefered more breakfast time in the FF lounge anyway! :(

[D Chan]

Question which BIG WIG from QANTAS has flown SUITES on Singapore Airlines and has done a few flights on them.............

How do you know that no-one has? :rolleyes:

Although I hope this hasn't been done too many times at SQ's front end. Will be a bit hard to justify spending the company's money on a competitor's F or J (paying full fares)? And indeed if they don't use their personal expense why do they get the privilege when others miss out on getting spoiled?

The Actions they are doing is going to Kill of the Airline and Cost them Millions & Millions of Dollars

either way this will cost Qantas - 1) if engineers strike again with more delays / disruptions, 2) if they yield to the unions and engineers get a pay rise and 3) if the engineers are offered more, other unions / sections of the company will want to get a similar deal.

[James K]

Dixon was probably on a FOC tkt on SQ anyway. Big deal all the airline CEOs get it. Even Branson doesn't knock back the FOC F seat on QF to LAX when he needs to get there :rolleyes:

[Nils Kenny]

Well it's not Dixon who has flown SQ Suites, but someone very close bye just change one letter in his title and you get the Person so not the CEO but the C_O, and yes he has flown so much on PAID Tickets not freebe's that he has joined the FF's of Singapore Airlines.
The sooner Singapore Airlines are Allowed to fly across the Pacific the Better, look at the Fare in R class for QANTAS to Los Angeles AUD 22,804 plus Tax's and it's only AUD 18,450 plus Tax's to fly R class to LONDON on SINGAPORE Airlines. I know which one I would want to fly and it's no to Los Angeles on QANTAS.

[Kieran Wells]

QF2 has returned to LHR this morning...Gone Mech.. Of Course, no other QF's in London, so Pax get an overnight stay.. According to reports the engines were screaming...

[Raymond Rowe]

My last 3 flights with QF have been delayed.My flight to Adelaide on thursday night was really delayed.The excuses used could not be matched between ground staff blaming engineers. aircrew blamed the weather shame if they could get their stories straight

[Daniel F]

My flight to San Francisco has been delayed until 8:30pm today. I just hope it does actually leave at that time since I'm going over there to attend a funeral. :(

I've rung up Qantas to see if they can route me through LAX, but they said they can't do anything unless my flight is cancelled. If my flight gets cancelled or delayed till tomorrow I will have no other options that will allow me to get there in time.

Does anyone know if the cause of the delay is due to a late inbound aircraft or a maintenance issue? And does anyone have any suggestions what I can do?

[Matt_L]

Hi Daniel,
It seems that the problem is due to QF12 having been cancelled on the 19th in LAX. Now this seems the reason but im not 100% sure, but theres a huge backlog- flighstats.com shows a QF8 LAX-SYD being cancelled today and todays QF12 delayed 690 minutes.
So the knock on effect from QF12 yesterday or the day before cancellation could be the reason for the delay of QF73.
No solutions for you with regards to your circumstances but I hope the plane leaves at 830 for you and the other passengers sake.
My condolences and good luck with it.
Regards,
Matt

NB bit off topic but Not sure whether its MX or what reason for this QF73 delay, but a QF 744 on LHR-BKK a few days ago diverted back to LHR with witnesses saying the engines were screaming, a shift seems to be occuring in QF lately as these issues and delays were much more isolated before.

[Sarah C]

My flight to San Francisco has been delayed until 8:30pm today. I just hope it does actually leave at that time since I'm going over there to attend a funeral. :(

I've rung up Qantas to see if they can route me through LAX, but they said they can't do anything unless my flight is cancelled. If my flight gets cancelled or delayed till tomorrow I will have no other options that will allow me to get there in time.

Does anyone know if the cause of the delay is due to a late inbound aircraft or a maintenance issue? And does anyone have any suggestions what I can do?

It is shame you are experiencing this Daniel. If this delay is caused by the engineers actions (and back log of flights), I hope they remember the effect they are having on passengers like you.

[Montague S]

It is shame you are experiencing this Daniel. If this delay is caused by the engineers actions (and back log of flights), I hope they remember the effect they are having on passengers like you.

well what about the effect that it has on the engineers...people's lives are dependent on the work that they do, they should be adequately compensated for that.

stop and think for a moment how many QF a/c are in the air on any given day and the amount of passengers that are onboard...then make sure you remember that its the engineers who are responsible for making it happen when they sign off on the a/c being fit for flight.

So the knock on effect from QF12 yesterday or the day before cancellation could be the reason for the delay of QF73.

most flights arrived on time into Sydney this morning...its the outbound from Australia that seems to be causing the issues.

[Marty H]

It is shame you are experiencing this Daniel. If this delay is caused by the engineers actions (and back log of flights), I hope they remember the effect they are having on passengers like you.

How can it be a backlog from engineers when the engineers arent striking until next week???

Real shame because they are standing up for their pay and conditions, inflation is at around 4 to 4.5% yet the QF are offering 3% way below inflation, QF are happy to pay strike breakers $100K for 6mths work, yet cannot find the extra 1.5 to 2% per year to look after their own loyal staff, who ensure that the safety record of the company and OTP. QF contiunally report $1 billion profits yet continually screw their staff again and again all for the shareholders and Dixons benefit.

What sort of effect on pax like Daniel if some dodgey LAME from India clears and aircraft for flight if it has a defect he doesnt detect????

[Ash W]

How can it be a backlog from engineers when the engineers arent striking until next week???
...
What sort of effect on pax like Daniel if some dodgey LAME from India clears and aircraft for flight if it has a defect he doesnt detect????
...
Once again looking out your window over YSSY and providing nothing but rubbish:rolleyes:

I am on QF1 tonight, which has been delayed until 20:20 due to it coming late out of maintenance. Qantas advised me of this at 21:30 last night and also called this morning to change my connecting CBR-SYD flight. Sounds a bit fishy to me, ie the engineers although not striking are up to something to delay flights.

Yesterday QF5 didn't fly, it left this morning and there was another flight, think it may have been QF149 which didn't leave until late this morning too.

As pointed out most of the flights are arriving on time, it seems to be delays mostly to aircraft coming out of the shop. Funny thing last time I flew QF1 back in late Feb there were similar problems.

[Malcolm Parker]

How can it be a backlog from engineers when the engineers arent striking until next week???



Although they are not on strike until Monday. I think some some of them they still have overtime bans in place. So if there is excessive work to be done and not enough staff rostered on. There will still be delays as the engineers are not doing overtime to complete the tasks.

Driving past the Sydney Jet base every day at several different times of the day. I don't know if it is a coincidence but there seems to be more parked there than say this time last year due to maintenance back ups perhaps?

[Greg McDonald]

How can it be a backlog from engineers when the engineers arent striking until next week???

If some people can't see that the engineers have been on a 'stealth strike' over the last number of weeks then they must be truly blind!!

As far as pay rates go I think they should take the 3% being offered and stop being so bloody greedy!! I work for a company more than 10 times the size of Qantas (IBM) and they never give pay rises that are linked to inflation but rather productivity. I know very few people who are getting ANY pay rises lately, let alone 3%.

Maybe the engineers should check the current thinking on pay rises and inflation. In brief, most financial experts agree that if pay rises start flowing more freely then inflation will rise unacceptably and spur interest rates even higher than they are already. It doesn't take a mastermind to realise that, if this happens, then most other comodities will rise in price THEREFORE NEGATING ANY EXTRA PAY RISE YOU MIGHT HAVE GOT!!

[David Knudsen]

As far as pay rates go I think they should take the 3% being offered and stop being so bloody greedy!! I work for a company more than 10 times the size of Qantas (IBM) and they never give pay rises that are linked to inflation but rather productivity. I know very few people who are getting ANY pay rises lately, let alone 3%

Well said Greg, my thoughts exactly - if you're not happy with your pay or conditions, move on like the rest of us have to do!

[Montague S]

Well said Greg, my thoughts exactly - if you're not happy with your pay or conditions, move on like the rest of us have to do!

ok...now there is a pretty simplistic and stupid suggestion, if the majority aren't happy with their conditions and they do decide to move on can you imagine the chaos it will cause for the company? I think you'll find they choose to stay because they are loyal and its the only job most of them know.

pay increases usually get indexed against the CPI and companies that refuse to increase wages in the face of higher inflation in the broader economy will always face this problem.

food alone was up nearly 6% for the March quarter 2007 to the March quarter 2008 and fuel was up nearly 7% for the same period...for the period from March 07 to March 08 the CPI rose 4.2%...that's pretty significant in anyone's language....although its not that bad if your on $7 million a year.

[Rhys Xanthis]

inflation is a more or less self fulfilling prophecy. i think the engineers have made their point, maybe they should just move on from this?

[David Knudsen]

ok...now there is a pretty simplistic and stupid suggestion, if the majority aren't happy with their conditions and they do decide to move on can you imagine the chaos it will cause for the company? I think you'll find they choose to stay because they are loyal and its the only job most of them know.

Really? If they wanted to move on, I'm sure theres plenty of places engineers are needed, seeing there's such a shortage of skilled labour in Australia, in fact I see advertisments all the time for positions at fairly large QLD based aviation maintenence companies.

food alone was up nearly 6% for the March quarter 2007 to the March quarter 2008 and fuel was up nearly 7% for the same period...for the period from March 07 to March 08 the CPI rose 4.2%...that's pretty significant in anyone's language....although its not that bad if your on $7 million a year.

And is there some particular reason the LAMEs at QF are feeling this pressure any more than the rest of us working joes? Imagine if we all started carrying on like them in every industry! It wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else.

[Marty H]

Really? If they wanted to move on, I'm sure theres plenty of places engineers are needed, seeing there's such a shortage of skilled labour in Australia, in fact I see advertisments all the time for positions at fairly large QLD based aviation maintenence companies.



And is there some particular reason the LAMEs at QF are feeling this pressure any more than the rest of us working joes? Imagine if we all started carrying on like them in every industry! It wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else.

Lets be honest here QF if their costs increase or any other business for that matter can raise their prices, workers cannot raise their prices at any given time, prices in the last 6-12mths of everything has gone through the roof, if as Australians we are being charged a premium price then the wage increase's need to match, whos fault is it that we are paying premium prices for everything? Who's fault is it petrol is double taxed in this country? Who's fault is it there is no water in the country? Certainly anit my fault, but I just have to shut up and pay for it all:rolleyes:

[Brenden S]

If you wanted to go from a 75K + salary to go and work in QLD for a mere 45k go ahead, thats why they advertise. Most of it is GA work to, and you dont go backwards like that.

[Malcolm Parker]

Well it is clear they are on a stealth stirke ie refusing to work overtime as per following



* OVERTIME BANS AFFECTING MAINTENANCE ON QANTAS AIRCRAFT: The current work-to-rule industrial action being taken by Qantas engineers is leading to more aircraft being dispatched with “allowable defects”, according to the Association of Licensed Aircraft Engineers of Australia (ALAEA).
ALAEA federal secretary Steve Purvinas told ABC radio on June 9 that on average there were 750 allowable defects across the Qantas fleet which allowed the aircraft to fly for a certain period of time before being rectified. But over the prior three weeks with the overtime bans in place, this had risen to over 1800.
"If they don't have enough engineers to repair those defects that are reaching their final days ... well then they will have problems and have to remove some aircraft out of service I dare say," he told ABC Radio.
ALAEA and Qantas have reached a stalemate in pay negotiations which have stretched on since last year, with the carrier refusing to up its offer of a three per cent pay rise with an extra one per cent in superannuation. ALAEA has not ruled out further industrial action on top of its overtime ban, but has not yet advised of any more strike action.


Source: Australian Aviation Express: Issue 226

[Nigel C]

Imagine if we all started carrying on like them in every industry!

If we all demanded 5% rises to cover 'the cost of living' then inflation would spiral out of control and the unions would again be demanding more pay rises to compensate. Where do they stop?

And they say inflation is creeping up now...

[Daniel F]

Just an update on my situation. After a few long phone calls to Qantas they put me on QF11, so I am currently in LAX waiting for my connecting flight to SFO.

Thank you to the Qantas reservation agents for helping out!

[Malcolm Parker]

Whats with the delays going on. Is it maintenance still working on a go slow ban, as it is bordering on ridiculus and becoming a farce.

Just today I think you could say most of the Qantas OPERATED flights left not on time today.
QF167 delayed 30 minutes
QF45 delayed 20 minutes
QF129 delayed 35 minutes
QF 63 (so far delayed 6 hours - 1000 to 1630)
QF 149 delayed 1 hour 10 minutes.
QF107 delayed 3 hours 20 minutes
QF127 delayed 2 hours 15 minutes
QF11 (so far delayed 6 hours 40 minutes - from 1320 to 2000)
QF5 (so far delayed 1 hours 5 minutes - from 1555 to 1700)
QF31 (so far delayed 5 hours 5 minutes - from 1655 to 2200)
QF1 (so fare delayed 5 hours - from 1700 to 2200)

[James K]

They are not on a go slow they simply are not working overtime. As inconvenient as this is I believe it is the fault of QF management by letting the workforce be reduced to the point where it cant function without overtime being relied upon.

None of us enjoy trying to sort out the mess that this is causing let alone what pax must think.

[NickN]

I agree that if everyone demanded pay rises like this then inflation would continue its upward climb. There is a point that is reached when people have to accept the fact that if you keep asking for more money to offset inflationary pressures then all you are doing is fuelling inflation.

Quite simply engineers are paid well above what is considered the national average pay packet and there are others out there who work the same, if not more hours for less money. Their jobs may not involve the same degree of difficulty or training but they still earn far less.

Sometimes you have to appreciate what you get and be thankful for it. The only times I see things get nasty like this is when unionised industries are involved. The nurses got a payrise, the firies got a payrise, we have a union lets grab some cash too. Thats the mentality.

Look at those grubs at the Rail Union who wanted to strike Today to punish the public over their pay negotiations.

[Garry Emanuel]

So, all of a sudden, when the urge strikes (excuse the pun), CPI becomes the corner stone of wage negotiations.

Let's face facts - CPI drives the cost of what we buy, however, it doesn't drive the amount we get paid, unless we are award covered (and even then, the case is not solid). Pay increases typically are driven by two key things - Market Competitiveness and Employee Performance.

Changes in CPI have no (or little) impact on the demand and supply of labour and consequently, the impact on rates of pay over time is negligible.

The classic demonstration of this comes from times of downturn. I am yet to see a reduction in pay because of a negative CPI outcome. When times get tough, companies need less people; they choose the ones that deliver the greatest value and create competition for limited jobs; rates are pegged. When supply is short and demand is high, rates escalate.

Outside of that scenario, pay increase becomes driven by the value-add. If I keep doing the same job where I work, I get the same pay. If I add value, I get an increase - simple !

The difference between some of us and others is related to the fact some of us hold jobs where our actions can have an immediate and significant impact on others - Doctors, Pilots, Aircraft Engineers and many more. Others suffer the unfortunate fate of supporting the above and the impact they can assert in the market is weakened.

Should we reward the groups that can impact others to the detriment of the people with lesser direct impact ?

I would love a guaranteed increase of 3% per annum for the next few years. Not sure how many others on this board are getting that privilege, especially given the "possible" economic slippery slide we look like confronting.

[Greg McDonald]

The difference between some of us and others is related to the fact some of us hold jobs where our actions can have an immediate and significant impact on others - Doctors, Pilots, Aircraft Engineers and many more. Others suffer the unfortunate fate of supporting the above and the impact they can assert in the market is weakened.

Should we reward the groups that can impact others to the detriment of the people with lesser direct impact ?

Thats probably the best way I've seen it put....and I absolutely agree. As for the 3% - 5% per year that everyone seems to think is their right, all I am is disappointed in their short-sightedness. I work for a huge worldwide company that has more than 10000 employees in this country alone and I've had a total of 4% in rises over the last 5 years. All we get told if we don't like it is the standard....go somewhere else!
At least I suppose the employees in my company are not in the business of holding a gun to the head of the general public and demanding what they are not entitled to.

[Philip Argy]

Whats with the delays going on. Is it maintenance still working on a go slow ban, as it is bordering on ridiculus and becoming a farce.

Just today I think you could say most of the Qantas OPERATED flights left not on time today.

QF167 delayed 30 minutes
QF45 delayed 20 minutes
QF129 delayed 35 minutes
QF 63 (so far delayed 6 hours - 1000 to 1630)
QF 149 delayed 1 hour 10 minutes.
QF107 delayed 3 hours 20 minutes
QF127 delayed 2 hours 15 minutes
QF11 (so far delayed 6 hours 40 minutes - from 1320 to 2000)
QF5 (so far delayed 1 hours 5 minutes - from 1555 to 1700)
QF31 (so far delayed 5 hours 5 minutes - from 1655 to 2200)
QF1 (so fare delayed 5 hours - from 1700 to 2200)

Most flights out of MEL were delayed this afternoon - my QF440 left 45 mins late and QF442 was about 30 mins late getting into SYD. Pax were told that fog in Brisbane this morning caused a ripple effect across the network for the rest of the day. This morning QF419 left SYD on time but was slowed just before MEL (approx 1020) due to what pax were told was a "medical emergency" causing another a/c to be given landing priority - anyone know more about that incident?

[Montague S]

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=89687

few more ex Perth this morning.

[Rhys Xanthis]

Lets wait til news.com.au get hold of that particular story of the woman going to see her grandmother.

I can understand her frustration and sadness, but you can see how something like this would be blown way out of proportion!

[Steve B.]

My bus was running twenty minutes late and it only had one headlight working.........should I ring the media and complain?
Nobody apologised, no refreshments were offered, I was left in the dark. Many fellow passengers were distressed by the delay. This is just not good enough.................

[NickN]

What no food vouchers from the bus company?.... thats rough!

[Montague S]

few more delays adding to the horror run...

QF5 Singapore 15:55 20:30 Estimated

QF31 Singapore 16:55 19:30 Estimated

[Ash W]

few more delays adding to the horror run...

QF5 Singapore 15:55 20:30 Estimated

QF31 Singapore 16:55 19:30 Estimated

Your as bad as the newspapers. They have been having delays like this for many months.

[Grant Smith]

My bus was running twenty minutes late and it only had one headlight working.........should I ring the media and complain?
Nobody apologised, no refreshments were offered, I was left in the dark. Many fellow passengers were distressed by the delay. This is just not good enough.................

Steve,

If you were in Sydney - this would have made the media.. Simply to cause the Government further embarrassment...

[NickN]

QF73 got away at around 9.20pm 'ish from what I can see on PlanePlotter.

[Blake Riley]

just checking sydneyairport.com and Flightstats.net
More delays today for Qantas.
QF5 delayed 965minutes now leaving at 8am tomorrow morning
QF1 delayed 215minutes
QF11 delayed 220minutes left at 5.20pm

[damien b]

Caught some chat between aircrew and ops this morning on Qantas ops frequency, and QF5 will probably be delayed again this afternoon as the crew ferrying the aircraft from Brisbane have been delayed at Sydney due to a extended delay (unspecified when i overheard the chat) with the aircraft they are ferrying to Brisbane.

They just can not win it seems.