BBJ VIP Fleet Review

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

According to the Hearld Sun - The Prime Minister is reviewing options of replacing the Current VIP Fleet with larger Aircraft better suited to the current / future needs.

The Article is here
Prime Minister Tony Abbott seeks media deal over VIP jets

By IAN McPHEDRAN National Defence Writer•
News Limited Network •
January 01, 20147:44PM

THE Abbott Government will seek a truce with media outlets and taxpayers so it can buy or lease larger VIP jets to fly politicians, officials and journalists overseas on the same aircraft.

The bigger RAAF planes would also be fitted with the latest in global communications systems ensuring the Prime Minister is never out of touch with his cabinet colleagues and key officials.

At present the nation's leader is incommunicado whenever he travels on a VIP jet.

The $600 million lease on the current RAAF fleet of two Boeing 737 business jets and three smaller Challenger 604 aircraft will expire next year and the government will seek agreement from media companies to limit criticism of any decision to opt for bigger planes.

Any negative publicity would be limited to plush add ons such as gold taps or marble sinks.

The Boeing 737 BBJ aircraft are operated by 34 Squadron at Fairbairn in Canberra and are used by the Prime Minister and the Governor-General for official overseas trips, but they are too small to carry a full complement of press gallery journalists and crews.

The aircraft also lack modern day in-flight communications, such as those fitted to the US President's jumbo jet Air Force One, allowing leaders to stay in touch in transit.

The BBJs were leased by the Howard government after then secretary of prime minister and cabinet, Max "The Axe" Moore-Wilton, convinced the government to force the media to make their own way to overseas events.

In 2007 media companies threatened to ignore official overseas visits altogether in the wake of the deaths of five Australians, including journalist Morgan Mellish, when the Garuda Airlines plane carrying reporters and officials crashed in Indonesia during an official visit by then ministers Alexander Downer and Phillip Ruddock.

"Our current position and that of Fairfax is that our editors and bureau chiefs will not send correspondents on commercial aircraft in countries where air safety is an issue, if there is no room for them on official aircraft," then News Limited chief John Hartigan said at the time.

Both Mr Howard and his successor Kevin Rudd pledged to take action but nothing has happened in the six years since the tragedy.

The concerns were supported by Defence Chief Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston who said the BBJ was just too small and he urged the then Rudd government to go for a bigger aircraft.

"It is imperative we look after our journalists in places where the airline standards are perhaps not as high as they are in our own country," Houston said.

According to senior government sources the new plan would involve aircraft such as the Airbus A-330 or Boeing 777 that can fly hundreds of passengers over long distances with fewer stops.

The RAAF already operates Airbus A-330 multi-role tanker/transport planes that can be fitted with seats to carry more than 300 people.

Both US giant Boeing and European maker Airbus would be likely to offer highly competitive deals to secure the plum deal for the VIP jets.

The Boeing 777 and Airbus A-330 each cost about $250 million and both can carry in excess of 200 passengers in VIP configuration.


I did suggest this over 5 years ago, but was shouted down on this forum and or Jetspotter.com.

My current suggestions would be a B777/200LR or B787-800 if Space permits. This would give Non Stop to 95% of the World - London and New York, Non Stop.
Failing that B777-300ER.
From Airbus, the options are ACJ350 or A340 for the Range, both are able to do 18,000kms or A330.

It gets back to cost, but also do they want a Proven Jet already in Field or New Jet yet to come of the line.

Stuart

[Ash W]

I would say the A330 would be the lead contender, simply because the RAAF and Qantas already have them. The only question is new build specifically for VIP or back to the 707 days of the VIP fleet also being tankers.

PS there is no 787-800, I presume you mean 787-8?

[Ray P.]

I would say the A330 would be the lead contender, simply because the RAAF and Qantas already have them. ...

That may be a good reason, but Commonwealth purchasing regulations would require an open tender, so choosing an aircraft on the basis of Qantas already maintaining them for the RAAF would not be seen as a open and fair process. I imagine it would be a consideration, but not a discriminator.

[Yusef D]

There are some pretty cheap late model A340s around, and the uncompetitive fuel burn doesn't matter so much with the small number of hours that VIP aircraft fly.

The same pilots that fly the A330MRTT can cross-qualify very easily.

[Ash W]

That may be a good reason, but Commonwealth purchasing regulations would require an open tender, so choosing an aircraft on the basis of Qantas already maintaining them for the RAAF would not be seen as a open and fair process. I imagine it would be a consideration, but not a discriminator.


Commonwealth purchasing regulations do actually allow for limited invitation tenders, including sole source. Reasons for doing so would have to be pretty sound, and maintaining commonality with your exiting fleet would be one such reason I would imagine, especially when the VIP fleet is so small.

PS you may also notice I said lead contender, not done deal.

[Ray P.]

Ash, you are correct in that there are limited tender/sole source options available under the CPGs. In fact, the politicians can also do what they wish and circumvent CPGs without batting an eyelid. :)

[Jaryd stock]

The Howard GOV and RAAF wanted to consider buying bigger airframes, so it could also take the media with them overseas, But I think they were going to leave that decision till after the 07 election. As the article suggests There was thought that since the A330 was being purchased for the MRTT role, the obvious choice would be a A330, as I think the GOV at the time had options to purchase two or more airframes, (Andrew you might have to confirm). But the time frame has way past that date to exercise on that option.

And then EADS/ Airbus offered one more airframe at a cheaper rate if the C-295 was purchased for AIR8000 phase 2, to get the C-295 over the line vs the C-27J.

Anyway there probably will be a letter of request sent to both Boeing and Airbus, to keep everything above board but I dare say the A330 will be picked, as an outsider looking in, it just makes sense in keeping with the idea to limit the number of different airframes to keep costs down on maintaining/ operating them, As 33 SQN are already operating that aircraft.
It wouldn't take long to transfer 34SQN personnel to 33SQN to work up hours on KC-30's to get them ready for a transition to a hypothetical 34SQN VIP A330, If they haven't already.
Then there was an idea (unofficial) to have a palletised seat version of a KC-30, where seats could be moved in or out kind of like the JASDF KC-767 but this would require a side cargo door being retro-fitted to an existing airframe, or a new KC-30 airframe being purchased with this option, And that won't happen. KC-30's have transported a PM on a official visit to China in 2013, so this could also be a stop gap measure if decision is not reached in time.

It will be interesting to see what regional VIP aircraft will be picked to replace the 604's as the Challengers have also sometimes found there way overseas on different trips, so will bigger airframes with bigger range be selected.

There is my 2 cents worth.

[Nigel C]

G650 or GLEX would be nice :)

[Jonathan W]

2 more KC-30s will be purchased (along with one or two C17s) with one KC-30 to be converted to a VIP aircraft for the PM.
http://www.news.com.au/national/prime-minister-tony-abbott-to-fly-worldwide-nonstop-on-airbus-kc30a/story-fncynjr2-1227023370734

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

A little disappointed they didn't decide to buy a B777-200LR or 300ER BBJ, but it does make sense to keep the RAAF fleet the same, as it does cut down on operational costs.

But I assume the Government will buy the VIP Jet as a New ACJ330 from Airbus Ready for purpose with Custom interior, instead of a KC30A then converting to a VIP Interior.

I say this as the PM has complained in the Past, There is no link to the outside world, once he / she is onboard, until they touchdown again.

So a whole suite of communications need to be installed, not just for the PM, but also for the Travelling Media. This would be better done at construction, not at conversion, IMOP.

Looking at range, if they were looking at Airbus, still think the ACJ340 would be better, as it has a great range - 18,000kms vs 14,000kms, and 4 Engines incase, well, incase one or more has trouble.

Only need 1 x Air to Air refuel to get anywhere, Where as to get to Europe or Washington, would need 2 x Air to Air refuels.

Food for thought.

Stuart

[Zac M]

Or how about we stick with the current BBJs and Challengers instead using the savings to stop something like the Medicare copayments, I'm all for new VIP aircraft but doing it in this economic climate where everyone is affected by this government's stupid and unfair taxes (such as the copayment) is wrong.

[Kent Broadhead]

I've always thought that larger, more capable aircraft than the BBJs was sensible, especially given we are at the **** end of the earth. KC-30 is a good choice.

[JamesL]

The BBJ has a COMCEN on board.

[Ray P.]

...Looking at range, if they were looking at Airbus, still think the ACJ340 would be better, as it has a great range - 18,000kms vs 14,000kms, and 4 Engines incase, well, incase one or more has trouble. ...

Four engines versus two engines equals twice the chance of one of them failing in-flight. The case for four engines on an aircraft this size was lost years ago.

[Yusef D]

Air-air refuelling would not be accomplished on normal Prime Ministerial flights. Flying that close is a compromise to safety and would only be considered in highly unusual emergency situations.

[Stuart Trevena]

Hi All,

Yusef, re your comments above, if that is the case, then How and Why do they do it the President of the USA, who is much more powerful than our own PM?

Also, then why the Headline - "Prime Minister Tony Abbott to fly worldwide non-stop on Airbus KC-30A"

By conducting Air to Air refuel, must save at least 2-3 hours, if flying to Europe and Washington

Stuart

[Ash W]

Or how about we stick with the current BBJs and Challengers instead using the savings to stop something like the Medicare copayments, I'm all for new VIP aircraft but doing it in this economic climate where everyone is affected by this government's stupid and unfair taxes (such as the copayment) is wrong.

Zac, simple there is no fiscal or budget emergency. The budget is all about tax and program shifting along ideological nothing else. (you only need to look at the bottom line spend figures)

There is still money available to get the F-35's and there is money and a clear need to replaced the BBJ's.

[Tom Lohdan]

Airbus recently opened an office in Canberra.

So there must be something in the pipeline for Defense.

It was opened by some Australian Defense people.

I'll try to find the article in one of the Aviation magazines I was reading.

[Ray P.]

... if that is the case, then How and Why do they do it the President of the USA, who is much more powerful than our own PM ...

With only a small amount of research, there seems to be some conjecture as to whether Air Force One has ever been air-to-air refuelled with the POTUS onboard.

[Ray P.]

Airbus recently opened an office in Canberra.

So there must be something in the pipeline for Defense. ...

I don't think this is specifically tied to the BBJ VIP fleet review.

Australian Aerospace was rebranded as Airbus Group Australia Pacific and opened its new headquarters at Brindabella Park in Canberra last month. It will be looking for opportunities with the Defence Forces of Australia, New Zealand and Nations of the South Pacific.

http://www.airbusgroupap.com.au/airbus-group-arrives-in-canberra/

It was opened by the Defence Minister.

[Daniel M]

Hi All,

Yusef, re your comments above, if that is the case, then How and Why do they do it the President of the USA, who is much more powerful than our own PM?

Also, then why the Headline - "Prime Minister Tony Abbott to fly worldwide non-stop on Airbus KC-30A"

By conducting Air to Air refuel, must save at least 2-3 hours, if flying to Europe and Washington

Stuart

I believe AF1 has the 'capability' to be refuelled air to air, but has not done so with a President on board. It would only be required in an extreme situation where AF1 is required to remain airborne for an extensive amount of time (24 hours etc) and would be done in this situation as no other option is available.

[Tom Lohdan]

Indeed AF1 can be refueled, there is a photo on Flyertalk currently showing it in the United 757 John Kerry Thread. No one knows if it was a dry or wet test.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23371922-post53.html

[Jaryd stock]

Except for during wet testing for both VC-25's, SAM 28/29000 have never been refueled in mid flight other than those times. USAF PAG crew have never trained on EITHER VC-25's in A2A refueling instead transiting to Offut AFB in Nebraska and training on 1st ACCS E-4B's as both have boom receptors.

[Ray P.]

Indeed AF1 can be refueled, there is a photo on Flyertalk currently showing it in the United 757 John Kerry Thread. No one knows if it was a dry or wet test.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23371922-post53.html

We're talking VC25s, not C32s aren't we?

[Todd Steele]

Pretty sure they tried it in the movie Air Force One, didn't go so well from what i can recal ;)

[Rod Sloan]

At present the nation's leader is incommunicado whenever he travels on a VIP jet.

Bollocks.

[John C]

I would like to see them look at some sort of public private partnership like the poms have done with their Voyager aircraft.

Part civil crew, part military, surge capacity, spare airframes registered on the civil register with the ability to draw those airframes into the refuelling fleet when required.

[Joseph Saragozza.]

Is it just me, or do some of you have the same mind set as I do, that that its going to cause trouble being a multi role VIP/Tanker?
The VIP are going to want to use it at the same time as the ADF do and the down time need to convert the A/C from standard config to VIP and visa versa. It seems its going to be a logistical nightmare if this was the case

Or is this just a 'cover up' to the general public saying they are buying more KC30 Tankers when they are really buying ACJ330?

[John C]

I stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that the aeroplane will be a standard KC30 with a VIP interior.

There is no reconfiguration required when using the airframe as a tanker, the aeroplane uses the standard tanks (109 tonnes of fuel) and with a full load of fuel and about 30 odd pax it can do Europe to Australia direct.

In the tanking config all they would do is take some of the galley carts off, I imagine, and use a different weight and balance config.

I reckon it is a good idea as you get maximum utilisation from the airframe.

[Bob C]

We have 5 KC30As at present ; A39-001 is still in Europe undergoing trials, A39-002 and -004 are both very busy suporting Exercise Pitch Black and other duties, A39-003 hasn't been noted since 11 Jun and may be in reserve and A39-005 was last noted on 8 Feb and may also be in Europe.

I think the previous Government also wanted a dedicated A330 VIP aircraft so I can't see any problems having an aircraft dedicated as such. When all 5KC30A tankers are operational, the fleet should be adequate for their refuelling and troop transport roles.

[Jaryd stock]

003 is back in Europe

[Bob C]

Thanks Jaryd - do you know how long its been there and where exactly ?

Cheers

Bob

[Brian Noldt]

Hi All,

A little disappointed they didn't decide to buy a B777-200LR or 300ER BBJ, but it does make sense to keep the RAAF fleet the same, as it does cut down on operational costs.

Just came across this from the Nikkei Asian Review.

August 12, 2014 5:14 pm JST
Boeing 777 picked as new "Japanese Air Force One"
TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Japan picked the Boeing 777 aircraft on Tuesday as its new government aircraft for overseas trips by the prime minister and members of the imperial family.

A pair of Boeing 777-300ERs -- which will start operational use in the fiscal year from April 2019, replacing the two B-747 aircraft currently in use -- will be maintained by All Nippon Airways Co., the government said.

ANA outbid rival Japan Airlines Co. for the right to maintain the aircraft, which are known as "Japanese Air Force One."

The selection of the B-777 aircraft, which will be operated by the Air Self-Defense Force, was finalized at a meeting of a government panel on Tuesday.

The B-777s were chosen from aircraft that met a number of conditions set by the government, including the ability to fly nonstop to the East Coast of the United States, and being large enough for VIPs and their entourage as well as communications equipment to handle sensitive information.

Brian

[Jaryd stock]

Interesting they have gone twin engine replacement, with USAF VC-25 replacement that's due to enter service around 2020/21 timeframe the DoD have said that the replacement has to have four engines so the only new build aircraft would be the 747-8 or A380 and since hell would freeze over before POTUS would travel in a European Manufactories aircraft the 747-8 will be the next POTUS transport with three airframes due to be ordered soon if not already. Wether it will have the stretched upper deck like the Intercontinental or shorter deck like freighter remains to be seen.
The VC-25's landing gear is wearing out quickly due to the way they are operated whilst landing and due to the state of the worlds runways especially in the Middle East, that's why you have a C-32 backing up AF1 instead of the two VC-25's traveling together now as USAF are saving on wear and tear on both airframes, so we might see 747-8 sooner rather than later.

[Joseph Saragozza.]

Cheers for clearing that up John, I have misread the first statement.

I still believe it is going to be a logistical nightmare. What happens when the government needs the aircraft and the defence need it for refuelling duties at the same time?
And when it comes time for maintenance or the aircraft goes U/S they only have one aircraft fitted with a VIP configuration.

Personally I just think they should just have 2 dedicated VIP aircraft and dedicated tankers.

On a side note, not that it's a big deal, but it’s going to be one ugly grey prime ministerial jet.

[Bob C]

Hi Joseph

I hope, and expect, that any new "heavies" for the VIP fleet will be painted in the VIP colour scheme.

Cheers

Bob

[Joseph Saragozza.]

Sorry to bring this thread back up.
I was wondering if there has been any word on the replacement of the two BBJ's?
As far as I'm aware I thought the lease was to expire sometime this year.

[Jaryd stock]

It's been extended to 2017.