Get Ready for a Change

[Garry Emanuel]

Here's the start and I expect much more to come:-

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...0630-zmkn.html

[Dave Dale]

Was thinking about routes that Virgin Blue (V Australia) could send their B777-300's and am left wondering would they try a route to Dubai and then off to London (Heathrow or Gatwick)? As no Australian carrier has attempted this and as some might agree that Emirates has the route tied up, but would this be a route to try in the future?

[Ash W]

Originally Posted by Dave Dale

Was thinking about routes that Virgin Blue (V Australia) could send their B777-300's and am left wondering would they try a route to Dubai and then off to London (Heathrow or Gatwick)? As no Australian carrier has attempted this and as some might agree that Emirates has the route tied up, but would this be a route to try in the future?

There is a reason why other carriers don't hub through Dubai and that is there is no point as Emirates has the hub market sewn up due to the fact that it is THEIR hub and Dubai has very little to offer as a traffic generator in it's own right.

If the goal is for an airline to fly from Australia to Europe then the airline is better off flying through elsewhere. There are heaps of options, Malaysia being one that hasn't been exploited all that much, then there are the emerging via points such as India or even the likes of Vietnam.

If an airline were to make money they would do better on these routes then trying to copy Emirates.

[Ash W]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Ash mentions there are "heaps of options" on routing to Europe, however, that's not necessarily the case. Bilateral's (air service agreements) between various countries may limit the capacity and frequency competing airlines may provide limiting (and some cases preventing) access. A good case-in-point is Qantas and Paris. Qantas cannot secure daily rights between Singapore and Paris, yet Air France and Singapore airlines can. 3 x per week is not viable for Qantas to operate on this market. The same applies to China - Qantas has been lobbying to operate via China to London but is unable to secure daily operations.

So although there may be other 'routings' available for Australian airlines to operate between Australia and Europe, they may not be workable by way of bilateral limitation.

True, indeed, but until you start to explore routes and open then up rights cannot be secured. The main point however was Emirates works through Dubai because it is there hub and there isn't much traffic going to JUST Dubai. Other airlines would struggle so are better off looking to locations closer to home where they could home FROM. Just like Qantas and their mini Singapore hub.

[Ash W]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Singapore offers Qantas an ideal geographical hub for collection and distribution.

Correct and that is why it works for them. It is also the very same reason why they have just 2 flights that go to Europe via points other than in Singapore.

Getting back to V Aust, unless they choose somewhere to hub from, any flight to Europe will need to go through somewhere that generates some traffic, or where they can off load other passengers onto someone else to take regionally. Like Qantas and Cathay in Hong Kong. They won't acheive this by trying to compete EK with one flight a day via Dubai.

[John C]

Or they could just do London direct from Perth.

The 300ER can do it with a capped load, the 200 LR would be ideal.

[Bernie P]

What about going through Japan (Narita?)! I know that it has some severe slot restrictions, but as mentioned earlier, unless you start dialogue, you never know!

For example, the QF21/22: Departs Sydney at 9:45pm and arrives into Narita c. 6:30am... A transit of say, 90mins and depart out of Narita 8:00am... Now JL401 departs Narita at 12:00noon arriving LHR at 4:35pm so this 'idea would have you arriving c. 12:30pm and negating having a night stopover in Narita (which is good... but not for some).

Return flights could be something along the lines of departing LHR c. 9:00pm which would arrive into NRT c. 5:15pm and with a departure c.9:00pm, it would be arriving into Sydney c. 8:30am.

Mind you, this could also be routed via Kansai which was a route that JAL once offerred and now codeshare with the QF group via Jetstar. It could even be via Nagoya as well, but as I havn't been there myself, I am not sure of the size/infrastructure of the airport!

Just my $0.02 worth!

[Michael Morrison]

Rather than fly their own metal, surely it would make sense to partner with Virgin Atlantic and meet up in DEL/NRT/PVG?

You can already book AUS-LHR via LAX with VA/VS.

I also can't see VA compeiting with their partners Malaysian & Emirates though KUL or DXB.

As a side point you now also earn Status Credits when travelling with those partners.

[Anthony T]

You can already book AUS-LHR via LAX with VA/VS.

You can also can book to LHR via Johannesburg on VA/VS.

[Andrew M]

Changes now not to be announced until next year....

http://www.smh.com.au/business/whats...711-105ll.html

VIRGIN BLUE has delayed its relaunch until early next year as it deals with a dispute with its largest shareholder, Richard Branson, over plans by the Australian offshoot to own the Virgin name.