Too wet to land?

[NeilP]

Tell me something:

Some relatives (and I use the term loosely) tell me that they were on a VB E-170 en route Sydney - Port Macquarie on Friday morning. They reckon on approach to Port Macq. they were told by the flight crew that the runway was TOO WET to land and they would be returning to Sydney - which they did. They then re-booked on QLink D-8-300 which landed successfully.

Are they just making sh#% up, or is they some credit to this? I've never heard of this before...

[Zac M]

It is only a short runway so I would assume that if it was too wet they would have turned back as a precaution. A jet is a lot harder to stop than a turboprop, I dare say this would be the reason.

[Rob R]

All aircraft have limits at the time of the approach into PMQ in the Ejet the weather may have exceeded the limits of the the aircraft. The 170 is also a cat C aircraft with regards to intruments approaches whilst the Dash 8 is a cat b, which gives it lower minima for approaches. The runway 21 approach has also changed (making it higher minimas) due to the council not completing the works on the runway, and PMQ as it is very tight for a jet.

The Flight time back to SYD would have been around 40 mins and with at least 60 mins on the gorund to 're-book' with Q'Link, followed by another 40-50 flight back up to PMQ the weather would have been very diffrerent to what was there when the Ejet made it's approach.

[NeilP]

Thank you Gentlemen...

[Adam P.]

Runway condition (wet/dry/damp/otherwise) also affects crosswind limits I think..


This'll gie you an idea of what the runway was like when Virgin started flying into PMQ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpUft...ext=1&index=39

[Philip Argy]

Some pretty big puddles too!

[Rob R]

Ejet wet limit Xwind 31 kts, Dry 38 kts.

[Hugh Jarse]

Neil,

I was in the SIM on Friday, so I don't know what the PMQ weather was like. The E-Jet (which, as RobR wrote) is CAT C. What I can say is that when RWY 21 is the duty runway (due to the works in PMQ), we can only use the CAT C circling minima of 930' (plus a company additive of 50'). The Dash can use 690'. The current RWY 21 RNAV doesn't have a straight-in minima due to works.

That can (and does) have a significant impact on the probability of getting in to PMQ when the weather is poor and the wind precludes a landing on 03.

Nonetheless, anyone who flies into PMQ (I have been for 17 yrs) knows that the weather there can change in a couple of minutes. There have been times when we've got in with the E-Jet with the higher minima, and QLink (right behind us on the RNAV) missed out with the lower.

The crew stating the RWY was "too wet" could mean anything. Most people know little about airline operational matters, so it's easier for us to make a generic statement which everyone understands.

[Anthony T]

Hi there

I was on the flight in the YouTube video, as we disembarked the QF dash was heard, but not seen doing a missed approach, it went to Coffs.

A few QF pax waiting for the Dash to SYD were asking if they could switch to the jet. So the weather can affect both types in different ways.

Wonder why the E-Jet in the OP's post didn't go to Coffs to wait out the weather?

Do they still need this aircraft for the afternoon ABX service?

Cheers
Anthony

[Hugh Jarse]

Anthony,

Company policies can vary for numerous reasons. Generally at VB, we go back to SY, as we carry round trip fuel, and the A/C has another sector/s within 30 mins.

When I was at Eastern (QLink), if we missed out at PMQ, we would come back to SY also, unless Ops wanted us to go elsewhere or we couldn't carry round trip fuel due payload. We'd sort that out through the PMQ agent before making the decision. They have the big picture on upline movements.

Generally, if the weather at PMQ is bad, one's chances of getting into CH isn't much better anyway. Usually it's worse.