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  #1  
Old 10th October 2012, 08:01 PM
Ben C Ben C is offline
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Default Just a few Questions about setting up a brand new ADS-B system

I am thinking about setting it up at my place,

First question, I live about 35-40km East of Melbourne airport. Is it worthwhile setting it up here as there is already quite good coverage.

Second, how much would it cost to set up? I don't have anything other than a laptop for it so far.

Third, what is a good system to buy?

And lastly, does it use much Internet to upload to flightradar24 or anything like that?

Thanks for any replies, Ben
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  #2  
Old 12th October 2012, 12:48 AM
Kurt A Kurt A is offline
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G'day Ben,

Thanks for the post. Good thing about having a laptop, you're already on your way


Quote:
Is it worthwhile setting it up here as there is already quite good coverage.
This is always a tough question to answer. It really depends on what you consider worthwhile. You have to decide what it is that you want to get out of starting your own feed. For most of us, it's the pleasure of actually being able to track live aircraft real time via our own set up and antenna from our own location with all our own equipment; it's almost like a personal achievement of sorts. There's also that guarantee that what we see on our own radar is completely accurate compared to any sort of delay or discrepancy on a third party sharing site.

Whilst you might already be located in a highly covered area, (I believe you're referring to a sharing site like PlanePlotter or other etc?) there are still benefits to running your own feed. The fun of the hobby, it's emerging and interesting technology to be involved in and to understand, you can maintain your own personal database of flights tracked and log them accordingly should you wish, the enjoyment factor of seeing your feed in lights on third party websites, the ability to take your setup into a remote location when travelling and view traffic overhead almost anywhere etc...

There are also other technical benefits which aid in the setup of any system, these include supporting accurate coverage for third party plane plotting websites, and the capability to visually track Mode-S Aircraft via PlanePlotter through and advancing technique in technology called MLAT; if you went down the track of purchasing a Kinetic Box and shared to PlanePlotter. (Mode-S a/c presently do not appear on radar screens, as they do not transmit the required information, namely LAT/LONG coordinates) If you're able to MLAT, then these Mode-S A/C sometimes display on the PlanePlotter map with a predicted position. If you do some quick checking against your live ADS-B feed data for the same aircraft, and direct the eyeball mark III into the sky, usually the predictions work out reasonably accurate. (Currently, the AirNav Radar Box is not MLAT capable).

Of course with having your own feed you would join the list of sharers already sharing in your area, and in the case that their feed goes "offline", yours might be the only other feed operating in that area that keeps the traffic alive on third party websites. There's also the chance that even with your new setup you might yield slightly extended range than that of other sharers around you, or depending on your antenna type you might have better in-close or on-ground coverage than others.

So there's many things that could work in your favour. Just think about what's most important for you and your interest and then determine if you'd like to invest.


Quote:
how much would it cost to set up?
OK - so here's a really rough price guide for you. And you must understand that depending on your locale situation, your setup might vary with regards to cable length, antenna type etc. But here's the basics to get started.

- $620 AUD for a Receiver Box (SBS-3; also comes with 3dbi antenna, software for free on website)
- $100-$200 AUD for an external antenna yielding more range (sometimes at the sacrifice of close-in, on-ground coverage however)
- $50-$150 for 5 to 10 meter good LMR 400 cabling if required (it's very thick. Thinner is cheaper, but attenuation loss is greater)
- $25 Euro for full version of PlanePlotter if planning to share to network
- Feeding to PlaneFinder and FlightRadar24 is free. (Also, you can become a premium member of FR24 for free if you feed 24/7 and can receive their APPs for free too.)

You'd also need to factor in any other incidentals like connectors, pigtails, mast mounts and brackets for any external antennas, water-proofing connectors, grounding equipment if you really want to get serious, and then any fees payable to people who can fly to Melbourne to help you get setup properly, lol

For an external antenna, well there's so many ADS-B antennas available for 1090mhz, but you really must do your homework because they all have different connectors etc and different dbi or db ratings... so you want to make sure they match your receiver and suitability too. You could start by looking at this list of antennas:

http://www.kinetic.co.uk/estore/inde...iewCat&catId=1
http://www.moonraker.eu/Avionics-and...nd-Accessories
http://www.ssejim.co.uk/26-sseads1090sj.htm
http://www.mobileone.com.au/antennas/airband.html (bottom of page)
http://www.dpdproductions.com/page_vhf_air.html#adsbout
http://www.wimo.com/cgi-bin/verteile...antenna_e.html


Quote:
what is a good system to buy?
There are different receivers on the market. AirNav have a product, Grahame can speak its praises, there's also a MiniADSB product on the market that's only the size of a USB stick, perfect for traveling. These are all different prices too, but doing some further research via google will get you prices on those.

Here's an all-in-one thread that will help you out: http://radarspotting.com/forum/index...ic,1318.0.html

You can do some more research via these two websites here.

http://radarspotting.com/forum/index.php?action=forum
http://www.radarspotters.eu/forum/

There's much more related content on receiver suitability on those than I could ever explain in a reply here. Let's just say that the majority of ADS-B sharers in Australia either use Kinetic Avionics SBS products, AirNav Systems' Radar Box or the Mode-S Beast. Some use the now discontinued Plane Gadget Radar and I know others use the Micro or Mini ADSB. See how you go. You might even be lucky to snag a deal for a receiver on eBay. Just be cautious of warranty though if you do.


Quote:
does it use much Internet to upload to flightradar24 or anything like that?
Couldn't tell you. I have a fairly hectic data plan so from my perspective that question is irrelevant Someone else might have some figures, but I doubt it's much at all, as I imagine a lot of the data transfer is text based algorithms, formulas and numbers, rather than images or files. Given most of the internet plans available in this country today, I don't think you'll find this even the slightest bit concerning.

Let me know how you get on, or whether you have any other questions. Good luck!
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  #3  
Old 14th October 2012, 04:40 PM
Ben C Ben C is offline
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Thanks for the very informative reply, I don't think I have any other questions but will now read the links you have given.

The Internet usage is the only thing worrying me, we can only get 12gb of Internet a month with Telstra. We can only get 3G Internet here so are very limited with it.
__________________
Previous Flights
13/05/18 VA204 ADL-MEL B738 VH-YFP
12/05/18 VA239 MEL-ADL B738 VH-VUY
16/04/18 UA98 LAX-MEL B789 N38955
2018 so far: 19 Sectors (59,255 miles - 95,362 km)
2017: 14 Sectors (34,188 miles - 55,020 km)
2016: 16 Sectors (39,600 miles - 63,731 km)
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  #4  
Old 15th October 2012, 10:44 AM
Kurt A Kurt A is offline
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Hi Ben,

Depending on what you use your 12GB per month for, separate to any up/down loading of sharing SBS data to networks, it should be more than enough for you to manage appropriately.

I've done a wee bit of searching for you, and from threads available on the Yahoo Groups forum for PlanePlotter directly, users have quoted various different figures in relation to their own research on up/down usage.

Some indicate that that a combined up/down usage per day can average 100mb-200mb and others indicate much less at up/down being 50/50 so 100mb total per day.

Other factors include how zoomed in/out your main map on PP is, which will then determine how many aircraft are displaying at any one time. Their reports are saying that less aircraft to display, then less updates sent/received from the server, hence less up/down usage. It's all relative in the end.

A lot of users in the UK who go out into the field with their ADS-B receivers have said that they all use a 3G dongle option from the 3 (Three) network over there, with a monthly 3GB usage limit. Reports are that it is more than enough for their requirements.

Here's a couple of threads from the PP Yahoo Groups site to support that, though you might need to be registered to view them. It might just be worth your time doing so, so that you can make your own mind up:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/planep.../message/51534
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/planep.../message/23572
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/planep.../message/18242
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/planeplotter/message/9654

You might also consider purchasing your own monthly dongle to keep that separate from your already limited 12GB, and that way you can manage your own usage much closer and would then be wholly responsible for any up/down usage utilised. In case of a sharing environment at home, at least then no one can blame you for taking a chunk out of the 12GB limit.

This then also gives you the flexibility to run your sharing whenever you like. You might be able to find a comfortable average by running PP for say 8-9 hours per day before you hit your limit, or maybe you'll even get a full 24/7 service out of it. I imagine it would be hard to completely figure out it's exact up/down sharing usage without some live tests on a purely independent system with internet usage set up specifically for that purpose.

I haven't yet researched any related topics on the previous two forums I linked to earlier in this thread.

Let me know what you decide.
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  #5  
Old 15th October 2012, 08:28 PM
Phil Henry Phil Henry is offline
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Hi Ben,

I operate my Broken Hill site (pp "s4") using a Telstra 7GB/mth connection.

I run planeplotter and flightradar24 uploader 24/7. I remote desktop for a look from time to time, plus the usual windows updates, planeplotter updates etc. I usually don't break over 5GB.

By the way...I'm using the NTC-6908T 3G modem...bulletproof

In regards to the choice of reciever. I insist on checking out the Mode-s Beast. www.modesbeast.com ... Ultimate 1090Mhz receiver available, bar none. Reliable, predictable...and half the price of the closest competition.


Cheers...ƒil

Last edited by Phil Henry; 15th October 2012 at 08:34 PM. Reason: grammer
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