Qantas - Some food for thought....

[Jon Harris]

The stuff about JQ and what Dixon said is spot on. JQ is growing larger and larger at the expense of QF.

As for AJ - he seriously has lot the plot and needs to get on the "A-TREE-TURTEE" back to Dublin quick smart. He has more than overstayed his welcome in oz and QF.

[A McLaughlin]

And insulting Joyce by taking the pi$$ out of his accent is a really mature way of making an argument in what is an otherwise serious issue?!?!

[Ash W]

Originally Posted by A McLaughlin

And insulting Joyce by taking the pi$$ out of his accent is a really mature way of making an argument in what is an otherwise serious issue?!?!

I think those that make it personal are just trying to deflect attention away from the real issue which is the the inability of the workers to face modern reality and actually work WITH management and find a solution to reduce costs that is workable and sustainable. It wouldn't matter who was in charge the message is going to be the same.

[Ash W]

Originally Posted by Jon Harris

The stuff about JQ and what Dixon said is spot on. JQ is growing larger and larger at the expense of QF.

Maybe the staff need to stop and think why, clearly it is the only workable way that Qantas can get the costs down to stay in business.

[Jon Harris]

absolutey! Why not take the pi$$ out of him?

AJ lost all respect when he trash talked his own company and blames QF employees for its woes...he needs to direct some of the analysis on himself and his performance (or lack thereof) at QF

And for the record I am not a QF employee.

[Mick F]

I think those that make it personal are just trying to deflect attention away from the real issue which is the the inability of the workers to face modern reality and actually work WITH management and find a solution to reduce costs that is workable and sustainable. It wouldn't matter who was in charge the message is going to be the same.

So creating shelf companies offshore and paying the employees about half is the modern reality? I don't think so.

[Ash W]

Originally Posted by Mick F

So creating shelf companies offshore and paying the employees about half is the modern reality? I don't think so.

Well if you have tried for years to transform the onshore work force into a more competitive unit then I don't have an issue with it at all. And yes it is a modern reality of a very competitive industry.

[Lee G]

I vowed not to post anything on this forum again, but reading this thread made me decide to air some opinions I have on what I have read so far. (You were right Nigel!).

There is lots that I could post up here about the current situation and from a historical viewpoint - I can't.

Having said that, the industry is not like anything else in Australia. It operates on a truly global, totally competitive basis with many carriers operating under "preferred conditions" and subsidies from their host countries. If the medical or banking sector worked this way in Australia, you'd find government intervention as it would result in people's deaths or would destablise the whole economy of this country!

Most Australians now believe it's their god given right to heavily discounted airfares anytime, anywhere - it isn't! Every sector which feed into aviation has put it's prices up - fuel, catering, aviation and airport charges, government fees and taxes (don't start me on that one!), yet the Australian public still believe that economies of scale should provide them with a "freebie".

At some point, the discounted airfares charged will make operating a wholly full service airline in this country unsustainable - this point is rapidly approaching without some rationalisation occurring.

The travelling public want latest IFE systems, full catering, extra seat pitch, etc - but don't want to dip their hands in their pockets to pay for it. They would prefer the staff wages and conditions take a cut so they can get to their holiday or business trip for next to nothing. Unfortunately, McDonalds style wages will only bring McDonalds style service - and airlines don't run with high school students working after school to pick up a little cash on the side! They work best with fully trained professionals and staff who have worked through the industry from the ground up, providing expertise and knowledge which can only be gained inside the industry. Try going to a hospital and asking for cut price service - see what they say and imagine the service you would receive - picture a medical student conducting your heart operation or a high school student dispensing class S4 drugs!

The airline managements are also damned if they do and damned if they don't so I don't blame them for looking at the only variable they can influence to stay competitive without putting prices up ... but maybe, just maybe it's time for the industry prices to again be governed by an Independant Airfares Commission, just like it was back in the good old Ansett/TAA days - remember them? $1000 return in Y class Melbourne to Perth back in 1982! What would that be now? Probably about $2500 as a guesstimate, maybe more! It works for health funds who are private entities - why not the airline industry?

I can't predict the future of the airline industry in this country and I'm not in a position to influence it, but for 60,000 or so airline workers in this country it should not include wage cuts and fast food wages just so the masses can get their travel fix each weekend at a consistant bargain basement price. Joe public pays $100 return for a 20km taxi fare .. surely the price for a 2000km round trip could be reasonably expected to cost more!

[Mike W]

Originally Posted by Lee G

The travelling public want latest IFE systems, full catering, extra seat pitch, etc - but don't want to dip their hands in their pockets to pay for it.

Unfortunately for Qantas Lee, Emirates and the like have set an expectation with travelers that these features are available with budget pricing that Qantas has to compete against.

[Todd Hendry]

Originally Posted by Ash W

Well if you have tried for years to transform the onshore work force into a more competitive unit then I don't have an issue with it at all. And yes it is a modern reality of a very competitive industry.

Ash. For years we have, as a workforce, taken pay cuts effectively, ( pay freezes). We work our guts out for on time performance, fuel saving etc etc etc. To have the management taking everything QANTAS has ever stood for and make it a skeleton of it's former self. And get bonuses.
The thing we used to have was a large and great engineering department. Now it's still great but the resources are just not there. QANTAS had the longest RB211 on wing and between overhauls. Now we outsource and it's showing.
I don't know what you do but I doubt you have the passion for the company you work for that most QF employees have.
So if transform means take stuff away and hope they can perform the same then let's hope it doesn't happen to you. It sucks.
Regards Todd.